Taysom Hill passing concepts question. (1 Viewer)

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

I was taking a look at this previously posted analysis of the Saints QB1 competition by Kurt Warner:



In the section on Taysom Hill, Warner observes that the passing concept used over and over again with Hill is a 3 level concept with a half field read. It was punctuated with about a half dozen examples over the 4 games from last year.

My question is there any evidence that Hill can operate with a full field passing offense? Does anyone have any tape of Hill working to the back side of the defense successfully? Or alternatively, is the CSP offense primarily structured such that half field reads are the norm?

SFIAH

 

[SweetT]

I’d take a wild guess that being he was thrown into the fire (due to Drew’s injury), with no OTAs, no preseason games, and basically no regular season experience at the NFL level…..there probably is no footage that you are looking for. Personally, I treated what he did last year, along the same lines of a rookie, with less training/opportunities to really get his feet wet. Just my $.02
I’m sure some TH7 haters would disagree and I don’t care.

 

[SaintJ]

Payton will start the player he thinks puts the team in the best position to win.

Honestly, this is one issue I am not worried about.

 

[MV2]

Whatever the reason for it is, Taysom struggled mightily last year with his reads. I'm sure he did a ton of film study and got great advice from Drew, but when the bullets start flying that's when guys usually revert to old tendencies. that's what scares me with Jameis as well. These preseason games will tell us alot about both of them.

 

[Saintamaniac]

I’m sure some TH7 haters would disagree and I don’t care.

I'm not a TH7 hater and I disagree.

Personally, I treated what he did last year, along the same lines of a rookie,

TH7 was not a rookie last season. He's been with the team now for 4 years. Sure he's split time in SP teams meetings, TE meetings and QB meetings but he's been in Payton's offense for 3 years. He's been a 1st read/run QB since coming to the Saints. It was very evident in the loss to Philly.

with less training/opportunities to really get his feet wet.

Again, prior to last year, he had all of 2017, all of 2018 and all of 2019 getting his feet wet.

He's got his shot now but there's no need to make excuses for him. If he has what it takes, Payton will start him. If he doesn't, he'll stay in his joker role.

 

[SweetT]

I'm not a TH7 hater and I disagree.

TH7 was not a rookie last season. He's been with the team now for 4 years. Sure he's split time in SP teams meetings, TE meetings and QB meetings but he's been in Payton's offense for 3 years. He's been a 1st read/run QB since coming to the Saints. It was very evident in the loss to Philly.

Again, prior to last year, he had all of 2017, all of 2018 and all of 2019 getting his feet wet.

He's got his shot now but there's no need to make excuses for him. If he has what it takes, Payton will start him. If he doesn't, he'll stay in his joker role.

Clearly you either did not read or comprehend what I said. I treated what he did last year LIKE a rookie scale. He has never had the luxury of solely focusing on QB (like a rookie QB gets to do), didn’t have any OTAs (like a rookie QB would), no preseason games at QB (like a rookie QB would get). Taysom has barely played QB in his 4 years with the team. I repeat, I personally look at it that way bc I will properly critique him when he is afforded all of the time and tools to try and be a QB. Which is what would be the best thing to do. Instead of…… “oh look, the guy that we have made play 5 different positions just got thrown in at QB for a full game……he sucks”. That is just asinine to feel that way. But at the same time “oh look, we have a (categorized) QB wrecking shop at 5 different positions, etc….he’s a BEAST”!!! Dude has helped carry our sorry offense for the past couple of years and he gets no respect or any confidence in him trying to live out his dream. Heck, what if he is willing to do anything to keep us competitive post-Drew???? Including being the starting QB???? Give me a guy like that any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I believe in players that want to be “more” than what others, especially fans, want them to be. Many of the greatest legends would never be who they became if they listened to some of you. Telling them “you’re too small or too slow or we don’t see you at this position” yada yada yada. If that was the case there would be no Jerry Rice, Sproles, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, etc. You think Kurt Warner liked having to bag groceries? No, these types of players did the opposite of what “you people” wanted. It’s their life. Give this dang dude a chance. Just sit back behind your keyboard and just let things play out. If he gets the gig, then great. If he doesn’t, then at least he tried. What is it really going to hurt or how much money will you lose by granting this guy a chance? Honestly, what are the haters losing? And keep in mind, one of the biggest regurgitated comments on this board is “WRs usually get it in year 3”. Ummmm….so a player who is only playing one position gets an automatic three years to get the hang of things or show progress? And that is not even remotely close to having to learn the QB position. Hilarious.

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

I didn't ask these questions to bash TH7. I was just wondering if there was any evidence supporting my questions. I'll ask again...

Does anyone have any tape of Hill working to the back side of the defense successfully? Or alternatively, is the CSP offense primarily structured such that half field reads are the norm?

SFIAH

 

[nakadish]

Payton will start the player he thinks puts the team in the best position to win.

Honestly, this is one issue I am not worried about.

Short term or long term? It may not be the same answer for both.

 

[SweetT]

I didn't ask these questions to bash TH7. I was just wondering if there was any evidence supporting my questions. I'll ask again...


SFIAH

Post #6 was not in response to you. So don’t take offense.

Post #2 I did my best to answer your question

 

[Judge_Smails]

Clearly you either did not read or comprehend what I said. I treated what he did last year LIKE a rookie scale. He has never had the luxury of solely focusing on QB (like a rookie QB gets to do), didn’t have any OTAs (like a rookie QB would), no preseason games at QB (like a rookie QB would get). Taysom has barely played QB in his 4 years with the team. I repeat, I personally look at it that way bc I will properly critique him when he is afforded all of the time and tools to try and be a QB. Which is what would be the best thing to do. Instead of…… “oh look, the guy that we have made play 5 different positions just got thrown in at QB for a full game……he sucks”. That is just asinine to feel that way. But at the same time “oh look, we have a (categorized) QB wrecking shop at 5 different positions, etc….he’s a BEAST”!!! Dude has helped carry our sorry offense for the past couple of years and he gets no respect or any confidence in him trying to live out his dream. Heck, what if he is willing to do anything to keep us competitive post-Drew???? Including being the starting QB???? Give me a guy like that any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I believe in players that want to be “more” than what others, especially fans, want them to be. Many of the greatest legends would never be who they became if they listened to some of you. Telling them “you’re too small or too slow or we don’t see you at this position” yada yada yada. If that was the case there would be no Jerry Rice, Sproles, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, etc. You think Kurt Warner liked having to bag groceries? No, these types of players did the opposite of what “you people” wanted. It’s their life. Give this dang dude a chance. Just sit back behind your keyboard and just let things play out. If he gets the gig, then great. If he doesn’t, then at least he tried. What is it really going to hurt or how much money will you lose by granting this guy a chance? Honestly, what are the haters losing? And keep in mind, one of the biggest regurgitated comments on this board is “WRs usually get it in year 3”. Ummmm….so a player who is only playing one position gets an automatic three years to get the hang of things or show progress? And that is not even remotely close to having to learn the QB position. Hilarious.

So Taysom gets till he is 34 for the light to come on? We will definitely be rebuilding by then and his wheels will be gone or light on tread. The world is cruel and so is the NFL. He is holding his own in camp, but the next couple of months are likely the only chance he gets to show he can be a QB1.

 

[BreesusSaves]

I was taking a look at this previously posted analysis of the Saints QB1 competition by Kurt Warner:



In the section on Taysom Hill, Warner observes that the passing concept used over and over again with Hill is a 3 level concept with a half field read. It was punctuated with about a half dozen examples over the 4 games from last year.

My question is there any evidence that Hill can operate with a full field passing offense? Does anyone have any tape of Hill working to the back side of the defense successfully? Or alternatively, is the CSP offense primarily structured such that half field reads are the norm?

SFIAH

CSP's offense is a full field offense and considered by many coaches and players to be the most complicated in the NFL. Really hard to judge Hill for being limited to half field reads considering CSP's offense is so complex that offensive players don't suffer from the "sophomore slump" due to it taking a full season for them to get a handle on just the base concepts.

If Hill comes out in preseason and Payton keeps him limited to half-field reads, then yes it is time to sound the alarms. But for now it may be more likely that the half-field reads last season were due to a lack of understanding of offensive concepts as a full time QB for Hill than incompetence.

 

[SweetT]

So Taysom gets till he is 34 for the light to come on? We will definitely be rebuilding by then and his wheels will be gone or light on tread. The world is cruel and so is the NFL. He is holding his own in camp, but the next couple of months are likely the only chance he gets to show he can be a QB1.

And like I said, he needs to get afforded ALL of the tools and chances that other QBs do. He’s getting that now. And like I also stated…..if he wins the job, then great. If he doesn’t, then oh well. At least he tried. He’s getting the chance now. He didn’t get it 4, 3, 2 years ago. He got a “taste” last year, during the season, but not any real practice leading up to the season. It seems a lot of you are speaking out of emotions without actually reading what is being said. And I never said to give him a 3 year grace period. That was a comparison to how this fan base treats different positions and how ridiculously different the standards are. Fans are willing to let a high draft pick take 3-4 years to develop or produce, but can’t let an UDFA, who has done everything that is asked of him, when he has never played those positions EVER, but he can’t get one dang off-season or preseason before people right him off?!?! Good lord

 

[Judge_Smails]

And like I said, he needs to get afforded ALL of the tools and chances that other QBs do. He’s getting that now. And like I also stated…..if he wins the job, then great. If he doesn’t, then oh well. At least he tried. He’s getting the chance now. He didn’t get it 4, 3, 2 years ago. He got a “taste” last year, during the season, but not any real practice leading up to the season. It seems a lot of you are speaking out of emotions without actually reading what is being said.

I have no emotion about Hill possibly starting. I trust coach Payton. Being unemotional about it let’s me understand that Hill is a long shot to be THE Guy. He is old and has to make a huge jump. If anyone can get him there it would be Payton, but becoming a franchise QB at his age and with his lack of XP is some Roy Hobbs stuff.

That is just real talk, not emotion.

 

[SweetT]

I have no emotion about Hill possibly starting. I trust coach Payton. Being unemotional about it let’s me understand that Hill is a long shot to be THE Guy. He is old and has to make a huge jump. If anyone can get him there it would be Payton, but becoming a franchise QB at his age and with his lack of XP is some Roy Hobbs stuff.

That is just real talk, not emotion.

We don’t need him to be a franchise QB. He could be just a stop gap until we find one. That should be the plan and I’m sure that is the plan.

 

[Judge_Smails]

We don’t need him to be a franchise QB. He could be just a stop gap until we find one. That should be the plan and I’m sure that is the plan.

The Guy means someone good enough to start and win more than lose while we still have 7 to 10 all-pro caliber players on the roster.

Payton has a lot of good will with the front office, but if the wheels fall off, post Drew, the whole thing might get blown up and I don’t think Sean wants to go out like that. If Hill or Winston show themselves unable to make enough plays to win games they should, don’t expect patience from CSP.