The temptation to win now (13 Viewers)

[StudioSaint]

Lucky for us the NFL doesn't operate like a human body.

And it doesn't have band aids to rip off either. The band aid is not literal, it's a metaphor. So is what I said.

We rip the bandaid off...possibly suck...

Losing and sucking is contagious mentally and emotionally. Choosing to field a less competitive team than they could, will weaken the morale of the players and will add one more thing to overcome in the future.

Those guys want to win as much as they can and if they see the staff making decisions that will make team less competitive than they could be, they are going to lose some faith in the staff.

Not to worry though, the Saints staff is not going to intentionally field a worse team than they could just to appease some fans.

That's how the NFL works...bad teams pick first....

And most of those bad teams are bad every year, even though they get to pick earlier in the draft. There is no consistent correlation between picking high and improving.

Most of the QB's in the playoffs this year were picked at number 10 or later in the first round or early second round. The belief that a team has to be bad enough to get a high draft pick in order to get better does not align without what has historically happened.

 

[DSnfla]

Some of these opponents are in rebuild mode like us, and some have a bit of a head start. I'm not sure that you can automatically assume they will be a worse team than our own. I know that fans want to 'win now' and want our organization to throw caution to the wind by doing everything to get us into the playoffs, especially with a seemingly favorable schedule on the docket. But this relentless 'can kicking' doesn't seem to be getting our team anywhere.

And what if we sell out to make the playoffs this year solely due to our favorable schedule? Then what? Will we be facing any of these 'weaker' teams in the postseason? Likely not. I don't know about you folks but I want to see the Saints in the playoffs when there is a reasonable chance that we can get past the first round of playoff games. Why cripple the following year's draft just to say we beat enough 'bad' teams to make the playoffs?

I don't think we have to sell out to make the playoffs in 25. THE main reason we missed the playoffs in 24 were injuries and a bad HC. A fact that so many seem to just ignore. I think we've done something about the HC, if we can stay relatively healthy this yr, have a good draft and add a couple upgrades we will win the division. That's NOT selling out

 

[DSnfla]

Because injuries are going to magically stop and we'll somehow stop the clock on players declining even further.

SMH , no injuries will not magically stop, BUT if we have just 1/3 of the injuries we had last yr we compete for the NFCS. The difference in 1 yr for DD Cam and Mathieu is negligible. Also the draft will be an influx of youth. If we make a couple upgrades in FA that will help. There also such a thing as better coaching

 

[Bill]

I don't think we have to sell out to make the playoffs in 25. THE main reason we missed the playoffs in 24 were injuries and a bad HC. A fact that so many seem to just ignore. I think we've done something about the HC, if we can stay relatively healthy this yr, have a good draft and add a couple upgrades we will win the division. That's NOT selling out

We may not have to sell out to get there. I just hope that we don’t try to mortgage the future to try and get there. I’d be shocked if we became legitimate contenders in 2025 even if we take the NFC South. But I suppose anything is possible.

 

[DSnfla]

Why would a head coach ever admit that even if they are!?

You're right a HC will never say we're going to tank. But they will say rebuild and they will say " We have a lot of challenges ahead " Or " It's not an overnight fix" CKM said none of that

 

[DSnfla]

There is a contingent of fans that think the things that went wrong last year, like injuries and DA, were the only things that went wrong last year. They don't see the QB position as a problem, they don't see our aging players as a problem, they don't see trading away draft picks to move up as a problem and they don't see our incredibly thin roster as a problem. They think it was just bad luck and want to run it back the same way, with added liabilities from kicking the can and signing free agents we can't afford, and deal with the consequences later.

The problem is that we've been doing it that way for a while and still not winning. Even when Drew was in his last couple of seasons we needed a QB, and to get younger, and depth at lot of positions. We were on borrowed time even then and now it's 5 years later and nothing has changed.

I'm giving Loomis some grace for being an optimist and believing the window was still open for the last few years and I won't hold it against him for brushing over our issues when speaking to the media. But I'd like to see a shift in tactics to match the actual reality. This season is the perfect time to pivot with so many other changes coming.

You talk about things that went wrong LAST YR and then cite things that were done yrs before like trading picks. We cite the MAIN things that were issues last yr as injuries, which were at an EXTREMELY high rate and having a bad HC. QB was the least of our problems last yr, but I get it you don't like Carr. The thinness of our roster was exacerbated by INJURIES.

None of us want to run it back the same way , nor have we said that. We just do not want this full rebuild that almost never works that some people want. I hardly think that was borrowed time.
Tanking or deliberately putting yourself in a position to have a throw away yr does NOT guarantee success

You mention Brees's last couple yrs did you forget that we won the NFCS and a playoff game in 20 and came a Cook fumble away from the NFCCG?

 

[DSnfla]

We may not have to sell out to get there. I just hope that we don’t try to mortgage the future to try and get there. I’d be shocked if we became legitimate contenders in 2025 even if we take the NFC South. But I suppose anything is possible.

We didn't mortgage the future last yr did we?
I don't get this all or nothing mindset. The goal should be to get better every yr . Not we have to stink for a couple yrs to have any shot at being contenders.

 

[Bill]

We didn't mortgage the future last yr did we?
I don't get this all or nothing mindset. The goal should be to get better every yr . Not we have to stink for a couple yrs to have any shot at being contenders.

It’s my personal opinion that if the Saints start restructuring too many big money contracts to push our payroll down the road a few years, then we are mortgaging our future. But if Moore & Company can get the job done with what we have now, more power to him. Somehow it seems that the odds aren’t great that 2025 will be our year. But I’ll take it if our new staff can beat the odds.

 

[StudioSaint]

We didn't mortgage the future last yr did we?
I don't get this all or nothing mindset. The goal should be to get better every yr . Not we have to stink for a couple yrs to have any shot at being contenders.

Intentionally building a team that will lose more games than the team you could build is a lot like selling your soul to devil. You always end up worse off than you think you will be, and Daniel Webster ain't around to get you off the hook.

Teams that draft high tend to draft high every year. That's empirical evidence that being bad to get high draft picks does not get you out of being bad. Everyone who was a Saints fan prior to Benson buying the team should bloody well know that.

If a team is bad a drafting, they draft badly no matter where their picks are. If a team is good at drafting, they draft well no matter where their pics are. QB's drafted after the 10th pick have just as good a track record as QB's taken prior to the 10th pick.

Hurts was taken in the second round. The Chiefs traded up to the 10th spot to draft Mahommes. Brees was taken in the second round. Brady was taken in the 8th. Purdy was taken kind of late in the draft too, wasn't he? What pick was used to draft Lamar Jackson?

Some firmly believe that Rattler is the next franchise QB of the Saints. What round was he taken in? Payton took Bo Nix with the 12th pick. The list goes on and on.

 

[DSnfla]

It’s my personal opinion that if the Saints start restructuring too many big money contracts to push our payroll down the road a few years, then we are mortgaging our future. But if Moore & Company can get the job done with what we have now, more power to him. Somehow it seems that the odds aren’t great that 2025 will be our year. But I’ll take it if our new staff can beat the odds.

It's the mindset that we have to get 70mil under the cap even if we have to cut and slash so much that we are for sure going to stink and have a hard time signing our own FAs that bothers me.

I don't want to touch Mathieu and DD's contract or have to restructure players that make the decision to move on from them about $. That's why I'm not in the camp of cutting Carr 6/1. If we did that we'd either have to roll with Rattler and Haener or waste 8-10 mil on a cheap vet QB and still be pretty much wasting a season.

To me it's better to restructure DC , get Cam and Taysom to take pay cuts. Restructure some of the younger players that will be here for a while . Not touch the aging players contracts. Then sign our own FAs like Adebo and maybe JJ and Harris , also sign a couple FA upgrades. We have a good draft and we will compete for the NFCS title

Then we revisit the DC situation in 26. It gives CKM a yr to evaluate SR and JH and see if there a future starting QB there.