Time to go West Coast (1 Viewer)

[Rouxble]

I posted this in another thread, but I think it is worthy of a thread. Our offensive performance YTD makes it clear that we need to be attacking defenses with short passes to open up the run and deep passing game, AKA the West Coast offense philosophy.

Here are the stats that make it clear:

Running Game

* When handing off to an RB, we have the second lowest success rate (36.1%) when running on early downs in the first three quarters. We can't get the run game going.

* What's crazy is that Taysom has a success rate of 77.8% for that same split, although that's on nine total carries. Should probably use that more.

Passing Game

* As far as early down passing, we are top nine in success rate when we can actually throw the ball (14th when counting sacks). Splitting it further:

* * We have the fourth highest success rate on passes less than 10 yards (60.9%).

* * We are bottom eight when we try to throw 10+ yards down field (33.3%). With most sacks occurring on longer developing plays, our overall success rate on deep passing is probably worse.

* * When Carr holds the ball more than 2.5 seconds, he has the second worst accuracy rate (behind only Zach Wilson) and the sixth worst sack rate in the league. He is middle of the pack when getting the ball out sooner, which is not great but better than being among the worst.

Conclusion

We need to run a West Coast offense. Yesterday. QB and OC need to be in agreement on this.

 

[Deuuuuce]

With Kamara back I am 100 percent ok with this. I wouldn’t abandon deep throws completely, but the offense is going to have to adapt or die.

 

[Pkessling]

I posted this in another thread, but I think it is worthy of a thread. Our offensive performance YTD makes it clear that we need to be attacking defenses with short passes to open up the run and deep passing game, AKA the West Coast offense philosophy.

Here are the stats that make it clear:

Running Game

* When handing off to an RB, we have the second lowest success rate (36.1%) when running on early downs in the first three quarters. We can't get the run game going.

* What's crazy is that Taysom has a success rate of 77.8% for that same split, although that's on nine total carries. Should probably use that more.

Passing Game

* As far as early down passing, we are top nine in success rate when we can actually throw the ball (14th when counting sacks). Splitting it further:

* * We have the fourth highest success rate on passes less than 10 yards (60.9%).

* * We are bottom eight when we try to throw 10+ yards down field (33.3%).

With most sacks probably occurring on longer developing plays, our overall success rate on deep passing is probably worse.

Conclusion

We need to run a West Coast offense. Yesterday. QB and OC need to be in agreement on this.

We ran the ball between the guards on the first three first downs yesterday. For a total of three yards, an average of 1 yard per carry. This is a tendency and teams are putting 9 in the box on first down. Yet we continue to run it right up the middle. GB continually ran to the outside yesterday and the Saints D failed to seal the edge on most of those plays. The Saints are very predictable on offense and are even getting that way on defense too.
In the second half GB was not substituting on offense in order to prevent the Saints D from rotating. This was a major factor in the defensive collapse.

 

[Infoman]

This would have been a valid option with Carr at QB... JW runs the WCO like overweight people run the 100m relay....

 

[Rouxble]

This would have been a valid option with Carr at QB... JW runs the WCO like overweight people run the 100m relay....

I think he did OK with the shorter throws we asked him to make yesterday, but we will need to reign him in for a full game, which is a taller task.

Both he and Carr can sometimes get caught looking deep at a sea of defenders when there is a wide open receiver underneath with chance for the first.

 

[Rouxble]

With Kamara back I am 100 percent ok with this. I wouldn’t abandon deep throws completely, but the offense is going to have to adapt or die.

We just need to set up deep throws with more underneath throws, I definitely wouldn't throw out the deep passes entirely.

 

[bclemms]

Watching a lot of NFL games yesterday it was really apparent that the running backs around the league looked stronger and more explosive than what we are putting on the field. So while I am confident our running game starts with the offensive line, it also really stands out how much we are lacking at the RB position. The only person that has passed the eye test while running the rock has been Taysom. If we want to be a running team we need to invest in the running back position. I know AK will help that some. I'm not ready to throw Miller away after one game but he sure doesn't look ready for the NFL. We should do some shopping for the RB position on practice squads around the league. There has to be something better than what we have for depth at the moment.

I agree on the short passing game. I also see the tremendous risk. Michael Thomas is a huge part of that success but he is getting no separation. Trying to make a living throwing into traffic for 4-7 yard gains is bad business in the NFL. We also have to get our TE and RB involved more in the passing game. This is an area where we are really struggling. 16 catches for the TE/RB positions combined in 3 games. We have two WR's with more catches than our entire TE/RB room combined.

I noticed some other things that were glaring yesterday watching the games. Teams that were successful were constantly testing and probing the entire field and constantly using motion and misdirection. These teams also seemed to have much better offensive lines. Constantly keeping defensive linemen off balance and disrupting the timing of the pass rush as well as pushing the limits of pass rusher responsibility just makes rushing the QB so much more difficult. It makes stopping the run so much more difficult. I see some of this creativity being displayed with the Saints but only when it involves Taysom. We need to kick the mindset that we can only be creative with Taysom. I'm not suggesting we become the niners or Dolphins but we are crazy if we do not at least borrow some of the concepts that are working so well around the league.

For the majority of teams, I'm noticing that there is a league wide struggle along the offensive line pass blocking. I think a bunch of sack records get smashed this season.

 

[Rouxble]

Watching a lot of NFL games yesterday it was really apparent that the running backs around the league looked stronger and more explosive than what we are putting on the field. So while I am confident our running game starts with the offensive line, it also really stands out how much we are lacking at the RB position. The only person that has passed the eye test while running the rock has been Taysom. If we want to be a running team we need to invest in the running back position. I know AK will help that some. I'm not ready to throw Miller away after one game but he sure doesn't look ready for the NFL. We should do some shopping for the RB position on practice squads around the league. There has to be something better than what we have for depth at the moment.

I agree on the short passing game. I also see the tremendous risk. Michael Thomas is a huge part of that success but he is getting no separation. Trying to make a living throwing into traffic for 4-7 yard gains is bad business in the NFL. We also have to get our TE and RB involved more in the passing game. This is an area where we are really struggling. 16 catches for the TE/RB positions combined in 3 games. We have two WR's with more catches than our entire TE/RB room combined.

I noticed some other things that were glaring yesterday watching the games. Teams that were successful were constantly testing and probing the entire field and constantly using motion and misdirection. These teams also seemed to have much better offensive lines. Constantly keeping defensive linemen off balance and disrupting the timing of the pass rush as well as pushing the limits of pass rusher responsibility just makes rushing the QB so much more difficult. It makes stopping the run so much more difficult. I see some of this creativity being displayed with the Saints but only when it involves Taysom. We need to kick the mindset that we can only be creative with Taysom. I'm not suggesting we become the niners or Dolphins but we are crazy if we do not at least borrow some of the concepts that are working so well around the league.

For the majority of teams, I'm noticing that there is a league wide struggle along the offensive line pass blocking. I think a bunch of sack records get smashed this season.

Using the Dolphins as an example, Tua has only been sacked once in three games. Not a coincidence that they are the league leader in 10+ yard attempts when running their base offense (early downs, first three quarters). They have 28 attempts at a 67.9% success rate. It's unreal.

I agree that our RB's have not been overly impressive so far.

 

[jahsoul357]

I posted this in another thread, but I think it is worthy of a thread. Our offensive performance YTD makes it clear that we need to be attacking defenses with short passes to open up the run and deep passing game, AKA the West Coast offense philosophy.

Here are the stats that make it clear:

Running Game

* When handing off to an RB, we have the second lowest success rate (36.1%) when running on early downs in the first three quarters. We can't get the run game going.

* What's crazy is that Taysom has a success rate of 77.8% for that same split, although that's on nine total carries. Should probably use that more.

Passing Game

* As far as early down passing, we are top nine in success rate when we can actually throw the ball (14th when counting sacks). Splitting it further:

* * We have the fourth highest success rate on passes less than 10 yards (60.9%).

* * We are bottom eight when we try to throw 10+ yards down field (33.3%).

With most sacks probably occurring on longer developing plays, our overall success rate on deep passing is probably worse.

Conclusion

We need to run a West Coast offense. Yesterday. QB and OC need to be in agreement on this.

A WCO doesn't change how bad play calling has been and honestly, that would probably make things worse with Sneaky Pete at the helm. Truth be told, Sneaky Pete should have been paying attention to what Sean Payton was cooking up in 2021 and then built off that. But this is where I believe all of this falls into DA's vision for the offense.

Using the Dolphins as an example, Tua has only been sacked once in three games. Not a coincidence that they are the league leader in 10+ yard attempts when running their base offense (early downs, first three quarters). They have 28 attempts at a 67.9% success rate. It's unreal.

I agree that our RB's have not been overly impressive so far.

The Dolphins also have some of the best skill players in the NFL but Mike McDaniel is an offensive minded coach, which is the direction we should have went in when getting a new head coach. Pederson and EB were right there for the taking and we went with DA.

 

[Rouxble]

A WCO doesn't change how bad play calling has been and honestly, that would probably make things worse with Sneaky Pete at the helm. Truth be told, Sneaky Pete should have been paying attention to what Sean Payton was cooking up in 2021 and then built off that. But this is where I believe all of this falls into DA's vision for the offense.

We are running deep routes against DB's playing 8+ yards off the line, and our QB who can call audibles at the line isn't adjusting.

If we went a more WCO route, we would be testing those corners with slants/hitches/outs/etc. I loved how we attacked Carolina, and later that game Shaheed brought in a big catch that was set up by the constant chipping away at the flat area.

Contrast that to this week, we ran a stick nod concept before I can remember us running stick. It worked, but only with Olave making a tough one-handed catch with a defender on his hip.

 

[Saints 318]

Bring in Gruden to watch over the offensive plays

 

[RJS]

We are running deep routes against DB's playing 8+ yards off the line, and our QB who can call audibles at the line isn't adjusting.

If we went a more WCO route, we would be testing those corners with slants/hitches/outs/etc. I loved how we attacked Carolina, and later that game Shaheed brought in a big catch that was set up by the constant chipping away at the flat area.

Contrast that to this week, we ran a stick nod concept before I can remember us running stick. It worked, but only with Olave making a tough one-handed catch with a defender on his hip.

It's mind boggling to me that we can't get Olave or Shaheed in space running on some shallow crossing concepts. Heck, make the refs call OPI on some pick plays.

 

[Rouxble]

Bring in Gruden to watch over the offensive plays

Not directed at you, but I find it humorous that every time our offense shows some life it is generally credited to Gruden, and when the offense struggles we need to bring him in.

 

[jahsoul357]

We are running deep routes against DB's playing 8+ yards off the line, and our QB who can call audibles at the line isn't adjusting.

If we went a more WCO route, we would be testing those corners with slants/hitches/outs/etc. I loved how we attacked Carolina, and later that game Shaheed brought in a big catch that was set up by the constant chipping away at the flat area.

Contrast that to this week, we ran a stick nod concept before I can remember us running stick. It worked, but only with Olave making a tough one-handed catch with a defender on his hip.

We should have an offense that account for all levels, and the truth is, we have the personnel to do that. I'm not saying that we should remove slants and things like that, we did it in Drew's prime, but was made our pass game so great was the fact that spreading the field vertically left so much underneath and that's part of the reason why Sproles could be a 1000 yard receiver at RB. Could elements be there? Of course, because it was with Drew but our skill players fit something in the mold of the 2011 offense more than it does the 2017-2020 offense. But you know what would help? Designed screens that actually work.

 

[Rouxble]

We should have an offense that account for all levels, and the truth is, we have the personnel to do that. I'm not saying that we should remove slants and things like that, we did it in Drew's prime, but was made our pass game so great was the fact that spreading the field vertically left so much underneath and that's part of the reason why Sproles could be a 1000 yard receiver at RB. Could elements be there? Of course, because it was with Drew but our skill players fit something in the mold of the 2011 offense more than it does the 2017-2020 offense. But you know what would help? Designed screens that actually work.

The screen game has been bad, but we aren't challenging them to send anyone on a blitz. Seven guys are in coverage watching the QB and the ball, and they are swarming on the screen when it doesn't get broken up by the DL.

We do have some underneath routes open with those deep routes down field, but we are getting sacked before making it past the deep reads. Our OL is not sufficient to carry out that deep to short offense, if not for some heroic catches by Olave this offense would look a lot uglier.