N/S Tyreek Hill arrested for traffic violation near the stadium in Miami (Hill played) (2 Viewers)

[Big_L]

Then he raised his window all the way up...
The police officer started knocking on his, window then lost his cool & pulled him from the vehicle put him on the ground and cuffed him.
I watched the video!

All of this could have been easily avoided...
Lower your window all the way & when you see the officier approaching your car, put your hands on the steering wheel...
Why is this concept so hard for some people.

Serve time in the Military & pull up to the MP's or SP's at the gate & barely crack your window & then roll it back up when they are speaking to you see what happens......

The police have a job that I would never want to have... approaching any car for them could be the end of their life!

There is no requirement for the operator to have the window rolled all of the way down.

Yes, all of this could of been easily avoided had the trained professional simply stated who he was and why he pulled Hill over.

I served time in the military as a SP. Completely different world. Individual's have to have clearance to enter an Air Force installation. There are certain rights given up when on a military installation. Had that happened at an installation entry control point, the Airman (I hope) would of advised the operator to roll down the window. Since the Airman would of simply been checking the CAC, Hill would of had his CAC returned to him and would be on his way to the chow hall.

 

[dennisrwood]

So Miami police seem to have an officer they know is a problem. Six suspensions? Are they going to just let him continue to escalate until there is a tragedy?

I retired from the Texas prison system after 24 yrs this past April. I have family and friends who are all sorts of law enforcement. Police included.

What i saw was an officer who was immediately and unreasonably confrontational. Hill was being an arse, as his usual. But he was complying. He had surrender his documents. According to his tickets he was cited for reckless driving. I assume for the 60 in a construction. All they had to do was write his ticket.

The aggression and language of the officer was unprofessional. His "you do what we tell you to do" form of machismo was entirely out of line. It was a traffic ticket. But the officer was taking as a threat to his authority and an attack on his manhood. And a challenge to his seemingly fragile ego.

The window being all the way down is a control issue. Most states it needs to be down enough to pass your documents through. Pennsylvania vs Mimms states an officer can order you out of a car for officer safety. I would like to see the justification for that. Hill was being compliant with the traffic stop. The officer needlessly escalated the situation. They knew who Hill was. It was a simple traffic fine. I assume Hill had no outstanding felony warrants because no one has reported any to this point.

It is also a bad look that they hassled the witnesses to their aggression. You are allowed to film the police in their duties as long as you don't physically interfere with them. Their is no 25 ft rule. And there sure as hell is no justification for the police doubling that nonexistant rule.

And the police don't decide 1 second us too long for you to comply. Why did they go hands on? Hill seemed to be complying. He is telling them to not hurt him and they seem to be doing just that. Why did he need to be taken to the ground? For a traffic stop? Are the Miami police that blind to the optics here?

Well, now that we know the disciplinary history of this officer... I'd say yes. This officer would seem to have a problem. I would have to see why he had been suspended six times. But it takes a lot to get that sort of punishment.

I've been involved in use of forces. I've had to control inmates who did not want to cooperate. Hell, I had to get officers under control. I've been attacked been officers. I've been gassed. I've broken up inmates fighting. Sometimes with weapons. I never lost control like this officer. I've dealt with fires. You either have it or you don't. And I've known a ton of officers who just did not have it. And much less officers who did.

I won't excuse Hill. But you have to expect that from the public. The officers have to be better and not get emotional. This officer did. And it appears from his history that Miami has a problem. I hope they fix it before someone gets hurt.

And I hope this is a wake-up call for Hill. He is blessed in life. He needs to not throw it all away and start appreciating what he has and stop acting like a clown. Learn to not drive like an idiot and he won't be in these situations.

 

[livefromDC]

I'm not using a military or police state to explain someone's behavior.
It was a statement to show that most people in America do this every day without any problems and our veterans, the people who protect our rights do it multiple times a day!

Perhaps you don't care about your rights being eroded away by police officers who don't care to follow the law while doing their job, but a lot of us still do. Every time someone submits to these illegal commands police become more emboldened to do it again. If you really cared about our rights, you'd be outraged when police decide to bend the law instead of suggesting we should all just go along with it because it's easier just to obey. You're not using a police state as an example? But you sure are endorsing ideals that would lead to one. The police giving unlawful commands to citizens should NOT be the status quo. And just go along with it should never be the response in a country that touts freedom above all else.

 

[MikeyF]

There is no requirement for the operator to have the window rolled all of the way down.

Yes, all of this could of been easily avoided had the trained professional simply stated who he was and why he pulled Hill over.

I served time in the military as a SP. Completely different world. Individual's have to have clearance to enter an Air Force installation. There are certain rights given up when on a military installation. Had that happened at an installation entry control point, the Airman (I hope) would of advised the operator to roll down the window. Since the Airman would of simply been checking the CAC, Hill would of had his CAC returned to him and would be on his way to the chow hall.

I never said in any post said that there was a requirement to roll down all the way down.
All I stated is that Hill could have avoided the whole situation by rolling down the window & placing his hands on the steering wheel when the officer approached his car.

I was on one of these military installations for 4 years.
Our Base Commander lost his son to a drinking & driving incident right before after I arrived at Patrick AFB.
It wasn't any fun trying to get on base after a night of fun most of my time there...

Flashlights in the eyes, hopping around on one foot...etc

The missed point is that most of the time you can have an interaction with an overbearing jaded police officer and come out unscathed by just being complaint.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

...The missed point is that most of the time you can have an interaction with an overbearing jaded police officer and come out unscathed by just being complaint.

No, the missed point is that it is police's responsibility not to violate the law, violate your Constitutional rights and remain professional.

 

[DaveXA]

I never said in any post said that there was a requirement to roll down all the way down.
All I stated is that Hill could have avoided the whole situation by rolling down the window & placing his hands on the steering wheel when the officer approached his car.

I was on one of these military installations for 4 years.
Our Base Commander lost his son to a drinking & driving incident right before after I arrived at Patrick AFB.
It wasn't any fun trying to get on base after a night of fun most of my time there...

Flashlights in the eyes, hopping around on one foot...etc

The missed point is that most of the time you can have an interaction with an overbearing jaded police officer and come out unscathed by just being complaint.

Fwiw, Hill isn't just anyone. I'm not a fan of his, but considering he probably doesn't want rubberneckers and whoever identifying him other than the cops, he has good reason to only roll down the window enough to talk with and hand docs to the cops, which he did. The cop had what he needed and at that point, go write the ticket. Closing the window until the cop returns after is actually perfectly legal.

The cop simply was butthurt that Hill was talking back at him about knocking on the window, which was a gross overreaction to Hill's actions. That he's been suspended 6 prior times from the department he works for explains a lot.

And heck no, the public shouldn't have to deal with belligerent cops...period. No one should have to comply with unreasonable demands.

 

[Big_L]

I never said in any post said that there was a requirement to roll down all the way down.
All I stated is that Hill could have avoided the whole situation by rolling down the window & placing his hands on the steering wheel when the officer approached his car.

I was on one of these military installations for 4 years.
Our Base Commander lost his son to a drinking & driving incident right before after I arrived at Patrick AFB.
It wasn't any fun trying to get on base after a night of fun most of my time there...

Flashlights in the eyes, hopping around on one foot...etc

The missed point is that most of the time you can have an interaction with an overbearing jaded police officer and come out unscathed by just being complaint.

And a base commander has way more power over the installation vs a police chief, mayor, or whatever. Like I said different worlds...

 

[DSnfla]

Then he raised his window all the way up...
The police officer started knocking on his, window then lost his cool & pulled him from the vehicle put him on the ground and cuffed him.
I watched the video!

All of this could have been easily avoided...
Lower your window all the way & when you see the officier approaching your car, put your hands on the steering wheel...
Why is this concept so hard for some people.

Serve time in the Military & pull up to the MP's or SP's at the gate & barely crack your window & then roll it back up when they are speaking to you see what happens......

The police have a job that I would never want to have... approaching any car for them could be the end of their life!

TH rolls his window all the way and gives the LEO his DL, the cop asks about his seatbelt and then takes a step away and then looks at the front of the car I'm guessing to look at an inspection sticker. TH rolls his window up. The cop gets irritated and raps on the window and says rather sharply "roll your window down" I'm guessing TH was on the phone with his agent saying he had been pulled over. TH rolls his window down 1/3 of the way which is all he is required to by law. The cop then says " keep your window down or I'm gonna get you out of the car" The LEO does NOT give TH a chance to roll down his window and says " As a matter of fact get out of the car " almost instantly. TH is not required to get out of the car but the other cop does not give him a chance to get out and opens his door and drags him out
You know as well as I do being pulled over by military police is VERY different, they are NOT bound by state and local laws so that is a poor example

 

[MarCowMar]

So Miami police seem to have an officer they know is a problem. Six suspensions? Are they going to just let him continue to escalate until there is a tragedy?

I retired from the Texas prison system after 24 yrs this past April. I have family and friends who are all sorts of law enforcement. Police included.

What i saw was an officer who was immediately and unreasonably confrontational. Hill was being an arse, as his usual. But he was complying. He had surrender his documents. According to his tickets he was cited for reckless driving. I assume for the 60 in a construction. All they had to do was write his ticket.

The aggression and language of the officer was unprofessional. His "you do what we tell you to do" form of machismo was entirely out of line. It was a traffic ticket. But the officer was taking as a threat to his authority and an attack on his manhood. And a challenge to his seemingly fragile ego.

The window being all the way down is a control issue. Most states it needs to be down enough to pass your documents through. Pennsylvania vs Mimms states an officer can order you out of a car for officer safety. I would like to see the justification for that. Hill was being compliant with the traffic stop. The officer needlessly escalated the situation. They knew who Hill was. It was a simple traffic fine. I assume Hill had no outstanding felony warrants because no one has reported any to this point.

It is also a bad look that they hassled the witnesses to their aggression. You are allowed to film the police in their duties as long as you don't physically interfere with them. Their is no 25 ft rule. And there sure as hell is no justification for the police doubling that nonexistant rule.

And the police don't decide 1 second us too long for you to comply. Why did they go hands on? Hill seemed to be complying. He is telling them to not hurt him and they seem to be doing just that. Why did he need to be taken to the ground? For a traffic stop? Are the Miami police that blind to the optics here?

Well, now that we know the disciplinary history of this officer... I'd say yes. This officer would seem to have a problem. I would have to see why he had been suspended six times. But it takes a lot to get that sort of punishment.

I've been involved in use of forces. I've had to control inmates who did not want to cooperate. Hell, I had to get officers under control. I've been attacked been officers. I've been gassed. I've broken up inmates fighting. Sometimes with weapons. I never lost control like this officer. I've dealt with fires. You either have it or you don't. And I've known a ton of officers who just did not have it. And much less officers who did.

I won't excuse Hill. But you have to expect that from the public. The officers have to be better and not get emotional. This officer did. And it appears from his history that Miami has a problem. I hope they fix it before someone gets hurt.

And I hope this is a wake-up call for Hill. He is blessed in life. He needs to not throw it all away and start appreciating what he has and stop acting like a clown. Learn to not drive like an idiot and he won't be in these situations.

You raise some good points, but I'm curious as someone who's had to work w/inmates--under what circumstances would you let inmates dictate the rules of your interactions?

Hill issued two dictates to the officer:

1) Don't tap on my window.

2) Don't tell me to roll down my window.

I don't know the specifics of the law in Florida, but Hill clearly had a deep window tint that didn't permit viewing inside the vehicle. I'd bet a substantial # of people would agree there was an implied threat in instructing the officer not to tap on the window. If the officer plausibly perceived those factors as a safety concern, would they not be justified in securing the scene, and would it not be Hill's behavior that had necessitated such escalation?

Hill placed the officer in a situation where he'd either have to assert control of the scene or submit and trust in Hill's authority.

What are some situations you have successfully submitted to inmates in order to pacify a situation?

 

[DaveXA]

I'll just leave this here. It covers some of the legal finer points and I think breaks it all down pretty well.

 

[DaveXA]

You raise some good points, but I'm curious as someone who's had to work w/inmates--under what circumstances would you let inmates dictate the rules of your interactions?

This isn't that. You're comparing a prisoner with a free civilian. It's a terrible example. And Hill wasn't dictating anything. The only thing he said that might be construed as dicating was telling the cop not to knock on the window, which isn't an unreasonable request.

Hill issued two dictates to the officer:

1) Don't tap on my window.

2) Don't tell me to roll down my window.

I don't know the specifics of the law in Florida, but Hill clearly had a deep window tint that didn't permit viewing inside the vehicle. I'd bet a substantial # of people would agree there was an implied threat in instructing the officer not to tap on the window. If the officer plausibly perceived those factors as a safety concern, would they not be justified in securing the scene, and would it not be Hill's behavior that had necessitated such escalation?

The video I posted addresses your questions pretty well. Simply put, the tinted windows isn't why he was pulled over and didn't hinder their ability to go write him a ticket after he gave them is ID. It's irrelevant. He was well within his rights to close the window after the cop got what he needed to write a ticket. Hill saying not to knock on his window and saying he didn't want to roll down the window doesn't give them license to violate him.

Hill placed the officer in a situation where he'd either have to assert control of the scene or submit and trust in Hill's authority.

No he didn't. The cops pulled him over and they were in control of the stop the entire time. Hill didn't force them to do anything. The cops deliberately escalated this when it was entirely unnecessary. Hill doesn't at any point prevent them from going and writing a ticket. The cops chose to get butthurt only because he rolled up his window and some pretty tame back talk.

What are some situations you have successfully submitted to inmates in order to pacify a situation?

 

[DaveXA]

I just want to add, eyeballing a speeding violation for 60 in a 40 is sketchy. At 59 mph, that's not a reckless driving charge in most states I think, which is a more severe charge than your garden variety speeding ticket. This whole episode was poorly handled by the cops.

 

[MarCowMar]

This isn't that. You're comparing a prisoner with a free civilian. It's a terrible example.

dennisrwoo introduced the comparison through their work w/inmates. It's not a perfect comparison but it's a profession that has similar control-of-situation requirements so I was curious how they had successfully used de-escalation in situations where inmates demanded control.

And Hill wasn't dictating anything.

The first thing he says to the officer after rolling down his window is "Don't knock on my window like that." The officer asks why he doesn't have his seatbelt on, Hill refuses to answer and instructs the officer again to not knock on the window. (A possible de-escalation here would be for the officer to submit to Hill's direction and apologize for knocking on the window--though it would hinder further communication.) Hill then instructs the officer to "Give me my ticket bro so I can go." Then he instructs the officer to "Do what you gotta do." as he rolls up his window.

At this point the officer has no means to communicate with, observe, or give papers to Hill, and chooses to violate Hill's dictate and knocks again on the window. The officer loudly states: "Keep your window down." Hill slightly lowers the window and states: "Don't tell me what..."

At that point it becomes hard to follow what is being said but at 1:45 of the video the officer instructs Hill to get out of the car. There's some argument that's hard to follow, and at 1:51 they apparently open the door (I was shocked it wasn't locked). I'd agree that a de-escalation situation here is possible as Hill clearly realizes his act has been called and pivots from ordering the officers around to being in victim mode.

The video I posted addresses your questions pretty well. Simply put, the tinted windows isn't why he was pulled over and didn't hinder their ability to go write him a ticket after he gave them is ID.

The video you linked states, in Terry v. Ohio, that inspecting the driver's license, automobile registration, and proof of registration, and attending to safety concerns are part of the officer's "traffic mission". It seems pretty clear cut that is the longstanding precedent that justifies their actions during this stop.

It's irrelevant. He was well within his rights to close the window after the cop got what he needed to write a ticket.

I'm puzzled at how many people come to that conclusion, but disagreement is what makes life interesting. It'll make for some though provoking legal discussion if he decides to pursue a case, and could result in a shift in the balance of power during traffic stops towards drivers.

IMO the officer video is worth watching

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

It's not a perfect comparison but it's a profession that has similar control-of-situation requirements so I was curious how they had successfully used de-escalation in situations where inmates demanded control.

A prisoner does not have the same rights as a civilian, there's zero comparison here.

The first thing he says to the officer after rolling down his window is "Don't knock on my window like that." The officer asks why he doesn't have his seatbelt on, Hill refuses to answer and instructs the officer again to not knock on the window.

The civilian is not the professional LEO, the civilian is a free man that violated the speed limit. That violation does not take away his rights.

(A possible de-escalation here would be for the officer to submit to Hill's direction and apologize for knocking on the window--though it would hinder further communication.)

Or he could just ignore the civilian's attitude because his actions were not harming anyone but himself. The cop had everything he needed to complete the traffic stop.

Hill then instructs the officer to "Give me my ticket bro so I can go." Then he instructs the officer to "Do what you gotta do." as he rolls up his window.

He doesn't roll the window up in the cop's face, he rolled it up as the cop steps away, assuming the cop was going to continue with reasoning for the the stop and start the citation.

At this point the officer has no means to communicate with, observe, or give papers to Hill, and chooses to violate Hill's dictate and knocks again on the window. The officer loudly states: "Keep your window down." Hill slightly lowers the window and states: "Don't tell me what..."

At that point it becomes hard to follow what is being said but at 1:45 of the video the officer instructs Hill to get out of the car. There's some argument that's hard to follow, and at 1:51 they apparently open the door (I was shocked it wasn't locked). I'd agree that a de-escalation situation here is possible as Hill clearly realizes his act has been called and pivots from ordering the officers around to being in victim mode.

The video you linked states, in Terry v. Ohio, that inspecting the driver's license, automobile registration, and proof of registration, and attending to safety concerns are part of the officer's "traffic mission". It seems pretty clear cut that is the longstanding precedent that justifies their actions during this stop.

This was a Traffic Stop, not a Terry Stop. Terry Stops are generally referenced when police are conducting searches without a warrant, there's no searches happening here as the reason for the stop was to issue a traffic citation. The cop had all the info to do just that.

I'm puzzled at how many people come to that conclusion, but disagreement is what makes life interesting. It'll make for some though provoking legal discussion if he decides to pursue a case, and could result in a shift in the balance of power during traffic stops towards drivers.

IMO the officer video is worth watching

Lemme guess, you are puzzled because the only thing you are willing to fight for in the Bill of Rights is the 2nd Amendment, the 4th be damned.

 

[Bishop]

Note how the cop looked around to make sure the others were paying attention and had his back before they snatched Hill up. This wordless affirmation to them tells me that this had been standard procedure, and one has to wonder just many others this cop had trained to do just that over his 20-something year career. Some will often mock those who bring up the term "institutional" when describing injustices, yet this seemed to be a fine example of a gang mentality exhibited by the police.

Oddly enough...most perceive pro athletes as being more their public servants deserving of constant moral scrutiny and judgement than they should LEOs. I believe that being a public employee having the capacity to abuse and even kill others at any given moment should be even more of a privilege than throwing and dunking balls for a living. That's just me. The only reason hordes of Hill detractors aren't here defending the cops is because they can't.

I've also changed my mind about the cop's firing after seeing his file.