Underhill: Saints are interviewing probably 12 coaches [Tracker: 7 scheduled interviews] (19 Viewers)

[St. Geezy]

Once again.... Tom ran the show. You lose all credibility if you don't know that Tom was very involved in literally every single aspect of the Saints.

Sean Payton Remembers Tom Benson, a Stickler for Organization and an Invaluable Mentor

'I just wish every Saints fan had the privilege I had. I got to be mentored by Mr. Benson for over a decade.' Saints head coach Sean Payton remembers the late Tom Benson.

www.si.com

Looks like Jeff Duncan should have cross referenced his Parking article with the loss of the leader of this team.

Not wasting my time debating this or this out of context article you had to dig hard to find as “proof.”

Bottom line is that in your eyes, anything positive that’s occurred with this organization, the credit goes to someone else. Anything negative that has occurred goes to Loomis. That’s a sign of petulance and irrational debate and just not worth my time.

If an article in which Mickey Loomis explained back then why he chose Sean Payton isn’t enough, I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[St. Widge]

Come on Widge... You aren't new here. You know why. The only thing ML seems to like more than drafting fat guys on potential... Is continuity... If they make the AAron Glenn hire... I'd bet my lefty Kubiak is retained... Maybe even if Vrabel is hired... and possibly others. For the sake of "offensive continuity"

Considering that the entire staff is being allowed to interview for other jobs including lateral moves, it seems unlikely that KK will be back or even that the majority of the staff will be back. I'll eat crow if it turns out that KK and most of the staff are back.

I'd guess that maybe Hodges, Young, and Benton and/or Dennison could be back, but I would expect significant staff turnover.

 

[No2DC]

I have to agree with this. And I think the irony is THICK that Loomis is so big on familiarity & continuity when, in fact, this franchise has experienced it's greatest periods of success when they went outside the organization for new blood.

I became a TRUE Saints fan when the USFL folded, and my favorite players and favorite coach ended up in NO. So I'll refrain from commentary on anything that happened before then. Besides, other than the Bum Phillips era, I hear it was mostly a sheet-show, LOL.

• Mr. Benson bought the team in the 1980s. He went outside the organization to hire Jim Finks as GM, one of the most respected GMs in the game. Jim Finks, in turn, went outside the organization (hell....outside the entire NFL) to hire Jim Mora. This resulted in the first "golden era" of Saints football. When Mora melted down, Rick Venturi was promoted from within to interim HC and compiled a 1-7(?) record.
• Mr. Finks passed away, and the Finks/Mora era slowly fizzled away. Bill Kuharich was promoted from within. This familiarity and continuity begat the hiring of Mike Ditka, which was a sheet-show from the get-go, and only got worse with time.
• Mr. Benson stepped in to clean up the mess, firing Kuharich and going outside the organization again to hire Randy Mueller. Kuharich was picked up the Chiefs front office in a low-profile executive capacity where he disappeared into anonymity...might even still work there? Never sniffed a GM opportunity again. Mueller went outside the organization to hire Jim Haslett, and this resulted in a renaissance of the Saints, at least for a short time. I wouldn't call it a "golden era", due to the short term nature of the era, but it did result in new heights...a playoff win....FINALLY!
• Mueller was dismissed for somewhat unknown/disputed reasons, but he brought Mickey Loomis with him from the Seahawks. Loomis was promoted from within, but the franchise continued to slide, both on and off the field, until the 3-13 Katrina season. I can't blame that one on Loomis, but maybe the slide started earlier. Mueller/Haslett won a playoff game. Loomis/Haslett didn't even make the playoffs. Haslett was dismissed.
• The Saints went outside the organization again and hired former Asst HC and QB coach of the Dallas Cowboys, Sean Payton. This began the 2nd "golden era" of Saints football. The TRUE "golden era" of multiple division titles, NFL records, frequent playoff appearances, deep runs, and a Superbowl CHAMPIONSHIP.
• CSP left under somewhat unknown/disputed reasons, and ML stayed inhouse to promote DA to HC. The Saints went from missing the playoffs due to a convoluted tie-break scenario in CSP's last season, to a record of 18-25 under DA; including a 2-7 final gasp before being fired mid-season. Darren Rizzi was promoted from within to interim HC and compiled a 3-5 record.

Looking at this in a broad brush manner, the best years of Saints football under the Benson era came from looking outside the organization. Jim Finks, Jim Mora, Randy Mueller, Mickey Loomis, Jim Haslett, and Sean Payton were ALL OUTSIDE HIRES that breathed new life into the franchise. Bill Kuharich, Rick Venturi, Dennis Allen, and Darren Rizzi were ALL INTERNAL HIRES with losing results. The only outside hire that produced losing results was Ditka.

Past history is no guarantee of future outcomes, but it seems pretty clear that the best chances for renewed success of the franchise will come from an OUTSIDE source....NOT FAMILIARTY. So why does ML seem to be placing such a premium on his familarity criteria?

This is why I was so opposed to the Allen hire from the beginning. Looking across the league, the evidence is clear: internal hires rarely go well. Walsh to Seifert is probably the best case and Seifert had a HOF QB sitting in the wings. Mike Mart was viewed as a brilliant OC , but the Rams crashed when he took over. Mick does not want change or anyone that will threaten his influence on the organization. He is the biggest obstacle to us returning to prominance, once at this point due to his ego.

 

[cdogg]

Worked for Jim Mora... why not interview him..

Never thought of it that way.

 

[kcirdor]

Not wasting my time debating this or this out of context article you had to dig hard to find as “proof.”

Bottom line is that in your eyes, anything positive that’s occurred with this organization, the credit goes to someone else. Anything negative that has occurred goes to Loomis. That’s a sign of petulance and irrational debate and just not worth my time.

You present an article to suport your claim that the same people will be involved in the hiring process...

You were presented with an article that explains Toms level involvement in the team. Since you seem to be completely unaware of his level of involvement. And it solidifies my statement that no the same people will not be involved. Not only does it solidify it, it makes Jeff Duncan's article on the culture of the Saints look like a pulitzer. When Tom died, no one was left to care about the minor details. Mickey sure didn't.

again... back to the claim of discussion... The same people that hired Sean Payton will not be involed in the current hiring process. Even the article you presented says Tom was involved...

 

[St. Geezy]

You present an article to suport your claim that the same people will be involved in the hiring process...

You were presented with an article that explains Toms level involvement in the team. Since you seem to be completely unaware of his level of involvement. And it solidifies my statement that no the same people will not be involved. Not only does it solidify it, it makes Jeff Duncan's article on the culture of the Saints look like a pulitzer. When Tom died, no one was left to care about the minor details. Mickey sure didn't.

again... back to the claim of discussion... The same people that hired Sean Payton will not be involed in the current hiring process. Even the article you presented says Tom was involved...

Well I am not debating whether or not Mickey Loomis hired Sean Payton or not. To put it bluntly, that is just flat-out below me (and just about any person that’s paid attention to this team for the past 20 years and doesn’t have an odd obsession and personal vendetta against ML).

Debate with yourself if you’d like. You’re the only person saying it, possibly ever.

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

This is why I was so opposed to the Allen hire from the beginning. Looking across the league, the evidence is clear: internal hires rarely go well. Walsh to Seifert is probably the best case and Seifert had a HOF QB sitting in the wings. Mike Mart was viewed as a brilliant OC , but the Rams crashed when he took over. Mick does not want change or anyone that will threaten his influence on the organization. He is the biggest obstacle to us returning to pro, once at this point due to his ego.

I liked the idea of Allen taking over because I thought the stint with the Raiders was just a case of him being young and with an organization that has had a hard time finding its better days. I thought the familiarity would be a plus but that was probably more of Allen being tied to Sean that it sounded really good at the time, and I really thought he learned something by helping Payton build a winning culture in New Orleans.

Fast forward...it all melted down and now looking at your side of why you were against it because of the internal hiring but i never thought about it and all the way back to Siefert but that was about as plug and play as you could get. Those old Niner defenses alone were able to win championships for several years in a row.

Now that you point that out the failure rate is not good and probably why it doesn't happen that often. So many things go into play as being the right type of coach but if it were easy everybody would be doing it.

 

[kcirdor]

Well I am not debating whether or not Mickey Loomis hired Sean Payton or not. To put it bluntly, that is just flat-out below me (and just about any person that’s paid attention to this team for the past 20 years and doesn’t have an odd obsession and personal vendetta against ML).

Debate with yourself if you’d like. You’re the only person saying it, possibly ever.

The article you presented... says Tom was involved in the process.. so there is no debate that the same people that hired Sean are involved. Because it is impossible.



And im not the only person you literally got your panties bunched when you insulted rebelmax for saying everyone knows Tom ran the show and hired Sean. Jeez bruh if you are going to go at someone and insult them....remember it.

 

[kcirdor]

I’ve read all of the comments and let me clarify.

I’m not saying Joe Brady will be the Coach , I’m not saying that we can’t hire a good coach but what I am saying is that the FO/GM situation in New Orleans is a problem and that is known in the league.

Do you think it’s not known in the league that a few of the players got to Gayle and she forced the GM to fire the Head Coach ? Everyone knows that.

“Loomis hired Payton “ !
Ok let’s unpack that …

Tom Benson hired Payton. We can argue who is credited and who was the GM but - I KNOW that Benson hired Payton and assured him he would have certain controls over the roster , free agency and the draft. He had very strong personnel decision making ability which was important to him as a Parcells disciple and that was assured by the Owner. Loomis on the other hand was a bottom 5 paid GM in the NFL.

“He has always worked well with Head Coaches” … when did you hear Loomis do much talking when Benson was alive and well ? Very rarely. There was the famous meme of him with the Matrix numbers in the background. He was supposed to be the numbers genius behind the scenes.

When did that change ?

It probably changed gradually as we began winning but Loomis got very little public credit for our success ( right or wrong that’s true ) But in any event it changed. Payton’s decision to leave was he could read the writing on the wall. Some of the power he had was starting to get reeled back and ( IN MY OPINION ) he started to feel like he might become the odd man out. There was a sentiment that Loomis had really built a winning organization built to last and it was more the continuity and culture that was winning and not Payton’s direct influence.

Loomis hired DA , which was already pre discussed and agreed to , and started campaigning for the Hall of Fame , created a GM radio show , lit the Christmas lights at the Roosevelt , created a 200th Win party for himself to be recognized.


All that said - what I meant by my original post is that no guy with real decent options is going to want anything to do with this. It will likely be someone they’ve already talked to , someone that will make the control and power concessions that they want. Which will likely also be someone that doesn’t have a lot of great pathways to be an NFL Head Coach.

....only person. keep stats.

 

[St. Geezy]

The article you presented... says Tom was involved in the process.. so there is no debate that the same people that hired Sean are involved. Because it is impossible.



And im not the only person you literally got your panties bunched when you insulted rebelmax for saying everyone knows Tom ran the show and hired Sean. Jeez bruh if you are going to go at someone and insult them....remember it.

That article I posted has quotes from Loomis, going into detail about why he made the decision. Literally talks about watching and reviewing all the interviews and such.

Not sure how much more is needed.

Of course the owner was “involved.” He’s ultimately who signs off on the hiring and signs the checks. But the decision was on Loomis; he was the hands-on decision maker. Read the article rather than just rushing to find a counter-article but being forced to settle on an out of context piece in which SP talks fondly about what Mr. Benson meant.

You’re intentionally being obtuse here and it’s all because you won’t rest until everyone believes anything good that’s happened with the team for the past 20 years Loomis had no part in and anything negative is his fault.

 

[St. Geezy]

....only person. keep stats.

Ah yes. Your other “Anything negative goes to Loomis (including this potential hypothetical I’m about to tell you); anything positive goes to others” compadre. How could I forget?

 

[kcirdor]

The credit Loomis deserves has been given. Past accomplishments are in the past, current accomplishments well... here we are. The culture of this organization was mandated by Tom and forgotten without him.

My compadre? No clue who Rebelmax is other than he is a Janitor. (Janitor is a meme from SR.com for people that know stuff in actual detail from inside the organization)

I see what you are doing... you are cherry picking parts of what they say to completely miss represent them. I get it now. That is how you went after poster after poster after poster and later had to apologize to those posters... "oh, sorry for insulting you. You thought the same way as this imaginary amalgamation I concocted in my head"

 

[Elvis]

Once again.... Tom ran the show.

That is my understanding of it as well. I believe it was to the point that Payton soured on being the Saints coach after Tom passed away. He was a daily visitor to Tom's office. That is when the real rumors began about him wanting to go to Dallas grew some legs. They smoothed thing over a bit by throwing money at him, but it didn't last.

There are no doubts that Tom was part of the process of hiring Sean, but I doubt he was leading the search.

 

[St. Geezy]

And this is where the triangulation technique process involving like-minded individuals begins, old out of context things get brought up, and I in-turn move on.

Have a good evening.

 

[kcirdor]

There are no doubts that Tom was part of the process of hiring Sean, but I doubt he was leading the search.

Correct. Tom hired people to do that job. His name was Mickey. Oh no... credit. Missed that cherry.

And this is where the triangulation technique process involving like-minded individuals begins, old out of context things get brought up, and I in-turn move on.

Have a good evening.

Old out of context things... says the guy that tried to pigeonhole my statement that the same people will not be involved as "everything positive"/"everything negative"


HYPOCRITE.