Analysis Week 15 Post-game AMA: The Backup Show (1 Viewer)

[TCUDan]

awesome explanation. Besides plays that are away from Young, ive seen a few times, that if his initial pass rush didn't work and he ends up wide on an island, he doesn't spin back to the play to pick up the QB being flushed back to him.

Yes, you're right, it is just pure instinct. One more question about Rattlers instincts, sometimes it seems like his speed is a tick too slow when stepping up in the pocket to run or improvise. Do you think he's simply not quick enough or he hasnt quite adjusted his instintcs to the speed of the NFL? And can he improve or is he what he is?

I'd have to go focus on it, but overall I think he has pretty good pocket awareness--especially the other night, when compared side-by-side with Haener. If he looks slow to climb it could be adjusting to the speed or maybe the Saints use different protections (for sure a larger variety) than he was used to in college.

Different types of protection create different windows and lanes for QBs. The most basic example would be *quick game vs. drop back* protection (I talked about it in another AMA - Derrick Carr not buying time with his legs on the strip/sack at the end of the Rams game b/c it was quick game pro). But it goes beyond that--identifying he defensive front and/or pressure, along with where the OL is sliding, where the back is inserting, is the TE chipping (because that changes rush angles), etc.

Brees was pretty much the king of working the pocket. If it were a recordable stat, he would probably be the best ever. We always think of it as him having this amorphous 6th sense--which to some extent, he did (great peripheral vision, etc.). But it was also b/c Brees was really, really, really good at identifying the front and pressure of the opposing defense. Back then the Saints used pretty simple protections up front and RARELY maxed up or got creative. You can do this when you have a QB who more or less communicates to his OL before every snap exactly what the defense is doing. He now knows who is blocking who, where the throwing windows are and where he can step and slide and climb.

All that to say--I'm not too worried about Rattler's pocket presence yet. He may not be Drew Brees, but he's got the instincts and is a natural. If there is something in his game that needs to be improved, he's got the ingredients to do it.

 

[TCUDan]

I believe I saw Foskey get a few snaps during the game while Chase was dealing with his hand injury. The one play I did notice was he got stonewalled vs the LT. Any hope for Foskey becoming a good rotation player?

On a fourth down got to have it play, what are your thoughts on going to your number 1 option vs trying to surprise the other team with going with the least likely option?

For example, I forgot the game but Carr threw a jump ball to Cedric Wilson on 4th down rather than going to Taysom or Alvin.

Foskey hasn't shown me much this year, but then again neither has the rest of the DL. Though I will say--last game, Cam Jordan looked a little like his old self. There were a handful of plays where he was so quick off the ball that he was 2 steps into his pass rush before the rest of the DL came out of their stances. No he doesn't sustain his rush like he used to, but especially in home games, he's still got that get-off.

Back to Foskey... honestly there just isn't too much I can say. He hasn't pulled a Trey Hendrickson or anything close to that. He looks pretty mid. Not bad enough to cut (he's on a cheap contract), but also not so good that I would shy away from treating edge rusher as a need going into next season.

On the fourth down question--I really am a believer in repping the sh*t our of situationals. I put 4th down in the same category as 3rd, so we rep those together. My answer to your question would be that while the chess match does factor in--what the defense expects vs. what you do--it's also about having a play that you (and more importantly, your players) are really confident in.

During Brees later years, that meant an undercenter run/pass option (the presnap decision type) married up with a 1-step bullet slant to Michael Thomas. If Brees had the 1-on-1 with Thomas that's where he'd go. When you have Taysom, anything 4th and less than 3 you put him in and run QB power or counter or some kind of 11-man run game RPO.

These are your dominant weapons and your best chance of converting. If you start trying to go "well they expect me to go this so I'll do this" you end up overthinking. THAT SAID... yes, sometimes you need to mix it up and not be predictable.

I'll give you an example from personal experience. This past season, in our semi-final game, we were down 20-0 at halftime and on the cusp of being eliminated from the playoffs. Everything had gone wrong. We rallied in the second half and came back to tie the game and take it into overtime. On our first overtime drive we scored on a slant-go to our #1 WR who had been pretty integral in the comeback. We gotta go for 2, so we line up and I got the play in fast. We were down to our 3rd string RB and had pretty much abandoned the running game in the 2nd half because of that. Still, I called G/H counter and we scored the 2 point and won.

Was that based on something I saw right then? No. It was just a feeling from the ebb and flow and my gut telling me that going back and trying to hit a fade to the guy who had just scored and been going ham on our opponent all half had a lower percentage chance of succeeding. Of course there's a counter-argument to that--be stubborn with your best play/player, make the defense stop it (the best example being the Seahawks not running the ball with Marshawn Lynch on the goal line to win the Super Bowl)--but these things really come down to gut instinct. Counter was good play for us, schematically, and even with our old, slow, 3rd string RB, I believed we'd get it in.

In the end the right play is the one that works. If it doesn't work, it's gonna be second-guessed until the end of time. If the Seahawks had completed that slant for a TD instead of it being picked off, Pete Carroll would be a HOF genius. If the surprise onside in the SB vs. the Colts hadn't worked, it would forever be a stain on Sean Payton's career.

This is just the nature of the game.

 

[Rexman100]

I'd have to go focus on it, but overall I think he has pretty good pocket awareness--especially the other night, when compared side-by-side with Haener. If he looks slow to climb it could be adjusting to the speed or maybe the Saints use different protections (for sure a larger variety) than he was used to in college.

Different types of protection create different windows and lanes for QBs. The most basic example would be *quick game vs. drop back* protection (I talked about it in another AMA - Derrick Carr not buying time with his legs on the strip/sack at the end of the Rams game b/c it was quick game pro). But it goes beyond that--identifying he defensive front and/or pressure, along with where the OL is sliding, where the back is inserting, is the TE chipping (because that changes rush angles), etc.

Brees was pretty much the king of working the pocket. If it were a recordable stat, he would probably be the best ever. We always think of it as him having this amorphous 6th sense--which to some extent, he did (great peripheral vision, etc.). But it was also b/c Brees was really, really, really good at identifying the front and pressure of the opposing defense. Back then the Saints used pretty simple protections up front and RARELY maxed up or got creative. You can do this when you have a QB who more or less communicates to his OL before every snap exactly what the defense is doing. He now knows who is blocking who, where the throwing windows are and where he can step and slide and climb.

All that to say--I'm not too worried about Rattler's pocket presence yet. He may not be Drew Brees, but he's got the instincts and is a natural. If there is something in his game that needs to be improved, he's got the ingredients to do it.

Another great take, thanks!

 

[Rouxble]

Of course there's a counter-argument to that--be stubborn with your best play/player, make the defense stop it (the best example being the Seahawks not running the ball with Marshawn Lynch on the goal line to win the Super Bowl)--but these things really come down to gut instinct.

According to Michael Lombardi, the Patriots installed a new goal line defensive package that year, but never used it until that famous play against the Seahawks' 11 personnel on the 1-yard line.

“When I first joined the Patriots in ‘14, they had just lost to Denver in a playoff game,” Lombardi said, “and one of the things that they were really bad [at] that season was in the red zone [and] goal line defense. So Belichick was obsessed with trying to find a goal line defense that could stop the run. And so that became the three corner defense. That defense was practiced all spring, was practiced all during the fall, never called until the Malcolm Butler interception play.”

“Get out of here,” Eisen interjected.

“This is true, Rich,” Lombardi continued. “This is true. So when you hear Pete Carroll, people say, well [you have] Marshawn Lynch, it [throwing the ball] was the dumbest play of all time. Why wouldn’t you run the ball? They couldn’t have run the ball. It was a goal line defense. Marshawn Lynch would have lost a yard on the play.

“So when Pete Carroll says they’re in goal line, he sees the goal line front, but they’re in goal line [with] three corners- first time they ran it all year- and Belichick didn’t want to give them time to adjust to what they saw on the field, so that’s why he let the clock play out.”

Patriots exec: Why Belichick didn’t call time out at end of Super Bowl XLIX

The Patriots had a trick up their sleeve.

www.patspulpit.com

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

A lot to talk about from the Commanders game, so ya'll fire away.

Show me your takes and I'll show you mine.

Jesus, I don't even think that's PG!

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

I'd like to hear Dan's thoughts on this too, but I like it.

I hear the arguments regarding momentum we had, having outscored Wash 19-6 in the 2nd half, with Rattler sparking, etc... as justification to kick the extra point and take it to OT. I hear those arguments...I acknowledge the validity of those arguments. But I think those arguments are the very reason to go for the 2 point conversion and take the win right then and there. When your boot is on your opponents throat as time expires....you go for the kill shot. JMO...

We were and still are a 5 win team. We have nothing to lose. You go for the win in that situation.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but what did you think of the play call for the 2-point conversion?


View attachment RPReplay_Final1734458103.mov


View attachment RPReplay_Final1734458103.mov

Hindsight is 50/50.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

awesome explanation. Besides plays that are away from Young, ive seen a few times, that if his initial pass rush didn't work and he ends up wide on an island, he doesn't spin back to the play to pick up the QB being flushed back to him.

Yes, you're right, it is just pure instinct. One more question about Rattlers instincts, sometimes it seems like his speed is a tick too slow when stepping up in the pocket to run or improvise. Do you think he's simply not quick enough or he hasnt quite adjusted his instintcs to the speed of the NFL? And can he improve or is he what he is?

I know this wasn't for me, but my friend has watched all of Rattler's games in college and is a huge fan of his. Rattler can get to top speed super quickly, but he doesn't have top end speed at all. So overall he's slow, but he's really quick too. I'm guessing he's thinking and thinking slows you down.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I know this wasn't for me, but my friend has watched all of Rattler's games in college and is a huge fan of his. Rattler can get to top speed super quickly, but he doesn't have top end speed at all. So overall he's slow, but he's really quick too. I'm guessing he's thinking and thinking slows you down.

He's got what I like to call phone booth quickness. He can make defenders miss in short areas, and if he recognizes the rush and triggers to run quickly he can get a quick 7-10 yards, but yes you're right, he's not a top end speed guy.

 

[Rexman100]

I know this wasn't for me, but my friend has watched all of Rattler's games in college and is a huge fan of his. Rattler can get to top speed super quickly, but he doesn't have top end speed at all. So overall he's slow, but he's really quick too. I'm guessing he's thinking and thinking slows you down.

yea, ive seen a few instances where Rattler will step up in the pocket to run and at the last second, a DT or a DE will fade back and swipe trip him while Rattler was moving forward toward the LOS. I remember thinking, man hes just a little off speed-wise. I hope its something that he can adjust to. He also made a comment that he was aware of WASH's coverage how they'll stay in their shell until the last second then break out into Tampa 2. (The play where he hit MVS deep over the middle) So I was thinking, is it just a matter of time to have to learn all of the opponents coverage schemes before he can reach his potential. Its why DC4 looks so much better than the rookies, is because hes been around awhile. If this is true, then i can see Rattler becoming a great QB in a couple years.

 

[sfidc3]

He's got what I like to call phone booth quickness. He can make defenders miss in short areas, and if he recognizes the rush and triggers to run quickly he can get a quick 7-10 yards, but yes you're right, he's not a top end speed guy.

Not comparing the 2 but Mahomes is similar.....runs like a 4.8 40.....I'm not a fan of the using the 40 as an uber important measuring stick for most positions but for QB's its literally meaningless.....quickness is way more important than top end speed....