Article Week 3 Rapid Response: Saints Looking for Answers (Just Like the Rest of Us) (2 Viewers)

[TCUDan]

Hey guys, glad everyone is enjoying the article. I do want to add a few points.

The main one being that despite my blunt criticism of the Saints performance last night--particularly that of the offense--nothing takes away from what they accomplished in the first two games. There's a lot of nuance that goes into football, more than can be captured within 24 hours of the final whistle and or in one article/rant/etc.

The season is not over. And while I don't like to mince words, I also don't want anything to be mistaken for an overreaction. Just because Taysom Hill is important to this offense doesn't mean it's dead without him. Just because Fuaga got owned on a TEX stunt that hurried Carr and forced a throw off his back foot to a wide-open Rashid Shaheed in the end zone--which was subsequently underthrown and broken up--doesn't mean that Fuaga is a bust.

There are no FCS teams in the NFL. Every game is won in the details. While scheme and play-calling and all the visible factors play a part in the result, there is much more to it. Things like practice, preparation, and philosophy--all things I could go on about for days, like where I think Kubiak's head is at and the core philosophy of what he's trying to do and the pros and cons of it all.

Also, while I point to the line between commitment and stubbornness in the article--specific to play calling and identity--I have also been in Kubiak's position. As an HC and offensive play-caller I led an undefeated team all the way to a national title, and though we led the league in practically every single offensive category all season long, we nearly blew the semi-final, not putting a single point on the scoreboard until the last seven minutes of the game when managing an improbable comeback.

These situations happen. A perfect storm of bed-crapping. A convergence of poor execution and play-calling and, in our case, overpreparation (which I definitely saw signs of last night). That line between commitment and stubbornness tends to be very fine, and the lens through which it's judged often depends on the result at the end.

The Saints need answers. The good news is that it won't take algebraic geometry to find them. They're professionals. This is their job. I'm confident they'll get there.

If I did have to point to one issue that really bothered me, it was the game management. Given the ebb and flow of things, going for it on 4th down instead of taking the points--without Taysom Hill, down your starting center, vs. a defensive front that's been dominating you in the trenches from the very first snap--that was just bad decision-making.

 

[rsmith2783]

It's unfortunate but on the bright side, maybe we can see how they'll adjust? The falcons could pose a similar problem, but we'll see how they'll adjust and if there are any wrinkles added.

It's crazy how Karma hit us.
A week earlier, we flooded Dallas stadium and did the goodbye song, only to have it happen to us a week later.

 

[SaintsFanInLA]

The defense did everything we could reasonably ask of them. They got two turnovers, and two 4th down stops. If our offense did half of its normal job, that game would have been a laugher. If DA took the gotdayum points to go up 6-0, we might have won the game in a tight one. I know the 3rd and 16 chafed my hide because of the whole keystone cops type nonsense but they shouldn't have even been in that position.

My problem is that I had come to grips with us never winning it all again, but then we started the way we started and I saw the similarities between this season and 09 season. It seemed like Derek Carr was like Drew Brees, Shaheed and Olave were like Meachem and Henderson, DeMario Davis was like Jonathon Vilma, Pete Carmichael getting fired and Klint Kubiak getting hired was like Gary Gibbs getting fired and Gregg Williams getting hired turning things around. The Honey Badger was like Darren Sharper, ballhawking. Dropping 40+ points on opponents and our defense getting takeaways. It felt like there was some magic here. I was sucked back in. And that's why I am upset with myself. I should have known better. These are the Saints. Something bad is bound to happen. Outside of the 09 season, every other season has ended in disappointment. It's what we do.

Now, we get two very important injuries and we lose a game that by all rights we should have won.

 

[lurking around]

The lack of a good third receiver is showing.

 

[VPCajun]

I like this bit (and others should take note...)(BOLDED for emphasis):

But still the most overlooked vulnerability on this team is how reliant [the team] is on Taysom Hill. On the surface this might sound absurd—an NFL offense being so heavily dependent on a 34-year-old utility player—but the truth is Hill is perhaps the greatest tendency breaker in NFL history. For this reason—and to Kubiak’s credit—his snap count has increased dramatically compared to previous seasons. Kubiak’s system favors heavier pers"

 

[VPCajun]

Hey guys, glad everyone is enjoying the article. I do want to add a few points.

The main one being that despite my blunt criticism of the Saints performance last night--particularly that of the offense--nothing takes away from what they accomplished in the first two games. There's a lot of nuance that goes into football, more than can be captured within 24 hours of the final whistle and or in one article/rant/etc.

The season is not over. And while I don't like to mince words, I also don't want anything to be mistaken for an overreaction. Just because Taysom Hill is important to this offense doesn't mean it's dead without him. Just because Fuaga got owned on a TEX stunt that hurried Carr and forced a throw off his back foot to a wide-open Rashid Shaheed in the end zone--which was subsequently underthrown and broken up--doesn't mean that Fuaga is a bust.

There are no FCS teams in the NFL. Every game is won in the details. While scheme and play-calling and all the visible factors play a part in the result, there is much more to it. Things like practice, preparation, and philosophy--all things I could go on about for days, like where I think Kubiak's head is at and the core philosophy of what he's trying to do and the pros and cons of it all.

Also, while I point to the line between commitment and stubbornness in the article--specific to play calling and identity--I have also been in Kubiak's position. As an HC and offensive play-caller I led an undefeated team all the way to a national title, and though we led the league in practically every single offensive category all season long, we nearly blew the semi-final, not putting a single point on the scoreboard until the last seven minutes of the game when managing an improbable comeback.

These situations happen. A perfect storm of bed-crapping. A convergence of poor execution and play-calling and, in our case, overpreparation (which I definitely saw signs of last night). That line between commitment and stubbornness tends to be very fine, and the lens through which it's judged often depends on the result at the end.

The Saints need answers. The good news is that it won't take algebraic geometry to find them. They're professionals. This is their job. I'm confident they'll get there.

If I did have to point to one issue that really bothered me, it was the game management. Given the ebb and flow of things, going for it on 4th down instead of taking the points--without Taysom Hill, down your starting center, vs. a defensive front that's been dominating you in the trenches from the very first snap--that was just bad decision-making.

fify

: - )

 

[SweetT]

I like this bit (and others should take note...)(BOLDED for emphasis):

But still the most overlooked vulnerability on this team is how reliant [the team] is on Taysom Hill. On the surface this might sound absurd—an NFL offense being so heavily dependent on a 34-year-old utility player—but the truth is Hill is perhaps the greatest tendency breaker in NFL history. For this reason—and to Kubiak’s credit—his snap count has increased dramatically compared to previous seasons. Kubiak’s system favors heavier pers"

I remember one playoff game against Minny. Drew was playing horribly. TH7 pretty much willed us to a victory. That Vikings defense was nasty and tenacious. After the game, they interviewed the Vikings defenders. All of them were gloating about TH7. One player in particular said “I’m glad they put Drew back into the game bc WE wanted no part of that dude Taysom Hill”
I have never in my life, heard any defensive player say something like that. That’s when I knew that TH7 was the baddest man playing in the NFL.

 

[VPCajun]

The defense did everything we could reasonably ask of them. They got two turnovers, and two 4th down stops. If our offense did half of its normal job, that game would have been a laugher. If DA took the gotdayum points to go up 6-0, we might have won the game in a tight one. I know the 3rd and 16 chafed my hide because of the whole keystone cops type nonsense but they shouldn't have even been in that position.

My problem is that I had come to grips with us never winning it all again, but then we started the way we started and I saw the similarities between this season and 09 season. It seemed like Derek Carr was like Drew Brews, Shaheed and Olave were like Meachem and Henderson, DeMario Davis was like Jonathon Vilma, Pete Carmichael getting fired and Klint Kubiak getting hired was like Gary Gibbs getting fired and Gregg Williams getting hired turning things around. The Honey Badger was like Darren Sharper, ballhawking. Dropping 40+ points on opponents and our defense getting takeaways. It felt like there was some magic here. I was sucked back in. And that's why I am upset with myself. I should have known better. These are the Saints. Something bad is bound to happen. Outside of the 09 season, every other season has ended in disappointment. It's what we do.

Now, we get two very important injuries and we lose a game that by all rights we should have won.

And you call yourself a Saints Fan.

Why, yes. Yes, you do!

Who Dat!

 

[brungart]

"Hill is Schrodinger’s player: simultaneously all and none of these positions." ----- Brilliant

 

[SaintsSpringBayou]

If you're gonna' lose, lose early, make a ton of mistakes. How you figure it out and remedy the issues will prove how good you truly are and where you belong.

I don't have any issues losing a couple of games early on, pre-December.

 

[Andrus]

Credit: Jason Behnken - Associated Press


By Dan Levy - Staff Writer - Saintsreport.com

Through the first two weeks of the 2024 NFL season, the Saints were flying high. Sporting a revamped offense under Klint Kubiak—which had, until Sunday, managed to score on nearly every drive—and a complementary defense able to pin its ears back and take the fight to the enemy, the Black & Gold were looking unstoppable. The vibes were immaculate, and words that had once existed only as hopeful whispers among the Who Dat faithful were now being blasted bright and bold across the internet and declared proudly from the lips of the national media.

This feels like 2009.

This feels like a Super Bowl season.

Those vibes came crashing down yesterday. The mirage of the offensive juggernaut, shattered. The complementary play of the first two weeks, gone—only to be replaced by overly-scripted play-calling, one-on-one failures, sloppy run fits and situational tackling, and frustratingly poor game management.

The Saints’ thrilling launch to the season, stalling out in the stratosphere.

While the defense certainly struggled to slow the Eagles’ offense—particularly on third downs, where they were infuriatingly leaky—holding their opponent to just 15 points should be, by any measure, enough to win the game. They epitomized the bend but don’t break philosophy, allowing long, sustained drives before coming up big in the red zone—or, in many instances, benefiting from the Eagles’ own share of highly questionable game management decisions.

Unfortunately, this style of defense—a defense of attrition—is not sustainable when your offense fails to produce. Three-and-outs on offense followed by 10 and 12 and 15-play drives on defense is a recipe for fatigue and mental collapse. And as the game continued in this manner and the ebb-and-flow remained unchanged, it became abundantly clear that the Saints’ bendy defense would inevitably break.

So what happened to the offense? Was it simply exposed? As a farce? An illusion? A short-lived sleight of hand by an offensive coordinator who just days ago was the toast of the Big Easy?

Well… yes, and no.

Let’s start with what’s clear. The Saints have issues on the offensive line, and yesterday the clock on hiding their trench deficiencies (trenchficiencies?) ran out. The offense as a whole was far too predictable and tendency-laden—something the Eagles took full advantage of. For the first time in three weeks the Saints were forced off script, out of their base—and it wasn’t pretty. Matchup issues and assignment errors and consistent QB pressure from the start. Impotence on early downs. Stalls and sputters on late ones. It was abysmal to watch, and while the first three weeks of any season can be tricky—when it feels like there’s somehow too much film on you and too little on your opponent—the coaches must do a better job of self-scouting.

Losing center Erik McCoy to injury on the first drive was a huge blow. But still the most overlooked vulnerability on this team is how reliant it is on Taysom Hill. On the surface this might sound absurd—an NFL offense being so heavily dependent on a 34-year-old utility player—but the truth is Hill is perhaps the greatest tendency breaker in NFL history. For this reason—and to Kubiak’s credit—his snap count has increased dramatically compared to previous seasons. Kubiak’s system favors heavier personnel, particularly on early downs. But with Hill on the field, it is impossible for opposing defenses to clearly identify the Saints’ personnel and match up accordingly.

When you have a player who is simultaneously a RB, a FB, a TE, and a QB, and he performs each of these roles—blocking and catching and throwing and carrying the ball—with starter-level efficacy, how exactly is a defense supposed to match up? Is it 21 personnel (2 RBs and 1 TE)? Is it 12 (1 RB and 2 TEs)? Maybe 11 (1 RB and 1 TE—a 3 WR set)?

Or is he just going to take the snap from center, and now you got to play 11-man run defense and matchup man-to-man across the board—so, Fork* it. The universe is a sea of indifference and nothing really matters.

Hill is Schrodinger’s player: simultaneously all and none of these positions. And with him sidelined due to injury, the Saints offense was unmasked. A fullback was a fullback. A tight end was a tight end. And Alvin Kamara taking a direct snap on 4th and 1 just didn’t have the same "buckle up and clench your cheeks" aura as Taysom Hill.

So where do we go from here? Is the season over and doomed and done for… and—Dammit! What am I supposed to do with these season tickets and this Spencer Rattler jersey!?

The answer here is simple: this is the NFL. We are three games into a seventeen-game season, and it’s better that the Saints’ issues are dragged into the light now rather than in December or January. And while football is, indeed, a game of X’s and O’s, it is also—and, perhaps, more importantly—a game of questions and answers.

Some questions have already been posed. Brutally. At the hands of the Philadelphia Eagles. Their offensive line that road-graded our defense. Their defense front—including former Saints linebacker, Zach Baun, who, yesterday notwithstanding, I wouldn’t describe as anything but mid—living in the New Orleans backfield.

I will also take the liberty to pose a few questions of my own. For example: while I understand the commitment to an offensive identity, at what point during a double-digit-yardage-output half does said commitment become stubbornness? Would it hurt to use more 11 personnel on early downs rather than waiting until 3rd and long? And when you do go 11, would it be prudent to, from time to time, get out of the compressed WR sets and spread the defense (as we finally saw on the fourth-quarter drive immediately following Barkley’s long touchdown)?

And another thing. While I, for one, love the play-action yankee concept on first down to start the second drive of a game—which has resulted in long, beautiful (and dare I say, majestic) Rashid Shaheed touchdowns vs. both the Panthers and Cowboys—I, along with my Czech neighbors, my dog, and probably the entire Superdome, saw this one coming.

As did the Eagles. The result was a Derek Carr sack. So perhaps a little less predictability should be on the docket?

I’m not saying to get away from that particular situational look. Just maybe counter it from time to time with a screen pass. An end around. Something to break that obvious tendency and get the offense back on schedule.

To be clear: what I’m doing right now—this essay, this article. This smug didactic I’m putting out into the universe.

I hate it.

As a coach, anyway. I absolutely loathe this sort of Monday-morning quarterbacking. These long, overly indulgent, grievance-peddling hot takes, spittled out by some random guy who spent the evening sitting on his couch, licking buffalo sauce off his fingers. Questioning the Saints just because they lost one damn game.

But as a fan... this is what I’m looking for.

Answers.

As for the Saints’ coaches—DA and KK and everyone sitting in a quiet room at Airline Drive lit by the flickering light of a projector. Sipping lukewarm coffee. Operating on an hour or two of restless sleep. Watching yesterday’s film—the all-22 and the tight shot and everything in-between—wondering where the hell to go from here…

They’re looking for the same thing.

So let’s give them a chance to figure it out.

Very good stuff, Dan! Appreciate your posting!!

 

[Cajun Chat]

Dan, outstanding as usual. It felt like groundhog day sitting in the dome yesterday. At the end of the 3rd quarter we had 98 yards of offense. Process that for a minute.

What I saw was a through whipping in the trenches. No need to quote the cliche about how games are won. You get the point.

You nailed it when you said missing McCoy was key but not having the element of surprise that is Taysom was maybe more important.

Another poster pointed out something I commented on in another thread and that's the lack of playmakers after Kamara and Olave. Olave may develop into WR1 but seems to be a perfect WR2 today. Rasheed is a feast or famine type of guy. He seems to be more of a 3/4 guy who takes the top off of the defense. We lack that true 2/3 guy to compliment Olave.

Going into yesterday, I had to listen to a bunch of my buddies that I thought were over the top on their assessment of our team not much different than the national media that seem to be listing us as the front runner in the NFC. I told them this league is full of smart people. They are going to figure this offensive scheme out. The question is how do we respond and what adjustments do we make? We had no answers on the fly.

I felt like yesterday was a true litmus test for our team. We didn't answer the call. A win in an ugly performance could have set us on the way to a magical season. While that could still happen, it seems like there is plenty of doubt to go around today.

Let's see what happens down probably McCoy and Maybe Taysom again. How do we compensate like Philly did down AJ Brown and later in the game Smith.

Before the season, I thought getting out of the first 5 games with 2 wins could set us up well. Mission accomplished already with 2 more games ahead of us. I'm sure KK learned some lessons yesterday or at least I hope he did. Not much time to lament but a short time to put those lessons into play against a very scrappy ATL team.

 

[StudioSaint]

...THE DC DISGUISED AS A HC TO GO FULL GREG WILLIAMS MODE with an 8 man across the line man to man defense on 3rd and 16...

DA called a double team on Goedert for that play. They were both disrupted by another Saints player. DA didn't call a coverage designed to have a player interfere with the double teaming players, that was a mistake in execution by the players on the field.

This sheet ain't just a Madden game. It's the real thing, so DA doesn't have a game pad he can use to control the players during the play.

 

[sfidc3]

It's unfortunate but on the bright side, maybe we can see how they'll adjust? The falcons could pose a similar problem, but we'll see how they'll adjust and if there are any wrinkles added.

It's crazy how Karma hit us.
A week earlier, we flooded Dallas stadium and did the goodbye song, only to have it happen to us a week later.

It's like folks forget what the NFL is like whenever this happens.....Not For Long is real, things change and fast......I knew this was going to be a tough game, and I'm disappointed that they once again lost a game they should have won under DA.....BUT, much more importantly, I'm anxious to see how this Saints team responds to early adversity.....especially against the Falcons....

 

[BensonJr]

Great article. What are your thoughts on Penning's recent improvement?