Well done Carr (2 Viewers)

[jahsoul357]

Got to love all the stat worshipers because like I always say "Stats are like a Bikini, they show a lot but they don't show everything " That TD% per dropback one you like, is not indicative of QB performance. If DC is 8th in % sacked per dropback, Ya sure can't throw a TD when you're sacked. Also if he's blitzed the 8th most in the league makes it harder to throw TDs when that happens. So it's not a tell all you like to think it is. That's why to me the best indicator ( and it's still fallible ) is QBR . Because it takes into consideration multiple factors. Whee it is fallible is INTs, because not all picks are the QB's fault but he get's blamed for them.

The only items that Quarterback Rating takes into consideration are completions, attempts, touchdowns, and interceptions. Nothing more and nothing less (well, each is weighed but you know what I mean).

Now, I don't have a problem with anything you said brother. The only problem is people are REAL selective when they are using certain metrics. If they kept the same energy, it would invalidate a lot of previous "takes." lol

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The only items that Quarterback Rating takes into consideration are completions, attempts, touchdowns, and interceptions. Nothing more and nothing less (well, each is weighed but you know what I mean).

Now, I don't have a problem with anything you said brother. The only problem is people are REAL selective when they are using certain metrics. If they kept the same energy, it would invalidate a lot of previous "takes." lol

Hell within this very thread we heard that QB A was good becaise he was in the top half of league in yards...but QB B was not considered a top QB earlier this season despite being a league leader in yards.

Now here's the craziest part....this all came from the same guy

 

[Quiet Storm]

Credit where credit is due, he was excellent today, 3 great touchdowns and converted on several 3rd and longs
The play calling was also much better today

The 3rd and longs were a shock to me. We use to be so aggressive and we finally saw that again.

 

[Rouxble]

The only items that Quarterback Rating takes into consideration are completions, attempts, touchdowns, and interceptions. Nothing more and nothing less (well, each is weighed but you know what I mean).

Now, I don't have a problem with anything you said brother. The only problem is people are REAL selective when they are using certain metrics. If they kept the same energy, it would invalidate a lot of previous "takes." lol

They figured out decades ago that QB rating gives too much weight to completions, and also double counts incompletions because an incomplete pass will gain zero yards.

By converting all the metrics in terms of yards, a completion was worth 20 yards, so a QB with three -5 yard completions and a punt will get a higher QB rating (79.2) than a QB that goes 1 of 3 for 30 yards and gets his team in enemy territory (71.5).

It’s crazy they continue to cite it to this day. To be fair, I use it at times because that’s what everyone else is still using.

 

[jahsoul357]

They figured out decades ago that QB rating gives too much weight to completions, and also double counts incompletions because an incomplete pass will gain zero yards.

By converting all the metrics in terms of yards, a completion was worth 20 yards, so a QB with three -5 yard completions and a punt will get a higher QB rating (79.2) than a QB that goes 1 of 3 for 30 yards and gets his team in enemy territory (71.5).

It’s crazy they continue to cite it to this day. To be fair, I use it at times because that’s what everyone else is still using.

Exactly; it puts way to much weight completion percentage. With dinking and dunking taking over the land, more schemes relying on spacing, and no more "penalties" for going across the middle of the field, passer ratings have been skewed for dang near 20 years and it has little to do with the skill or quality of the QB.

QB rating is usually the last thing that I would bring up. I look trends and metrics before I bring up raw stats and passer rating. Way too easy to cheat that system nowadays.

 

[DSnfla]

They figured out decades ago that QB rating gives too much weight to completions, and also double counts incompletions because an incomplete pass will gain zero yards.

By converting all the metrics in terms of yards, a completion was worth 20 yards, so a QB with three -5 yard completions and a punt will get a higher QB rating (79.2) than a QB that goes 1 of 3 for 30 yards and gets his team in enemy territory (71.5).

It’s crazy they continue to cite it to this day. To be fair, I use it at times because that’s what everyone else is still using.

The issue is that people put way too much credence in stats to quantify how good or bad a QB is in a major TEAM game. You can do that in Baseball like hitting % and to some extent Basketball such as 3pt % . But in football it's just not an individualistic sport. I always thought it was ridiculous to say that 1 QB beat another QB when they are NEVER on the field playing against each other. Yes the QB is the most important position on the field but in order for him to be successful at least 1/2 of the other 10 guys have to do their jobs. And the way stats are calculated is so off. QB throws a 8 yrd slant and the WR runs for 40yrds and the QB get's the 40 yds. , A QB throws a perfect pass and the WR has butterfingers and pops the ball up and it's picked and it's charged to the QB. When the opposing team has a big lead and the D plays soft a QB will rack up big garbage yds trying to make a comeback. There are just way too many variables.
There is no QB stat that will give you a definitive grade on a QB. The only one that misses the mark but comes the closest is QBR

 

[jahsoul357]

The issue is that people put way too much credence in stats to quantify how good or bad a QB is in a major TEAM game. You can do that in Baseball like hitting % and to some extent Basketball such as 3pt % . But in football it's just not an individualistic sport. I always thought it was ridiculous to say that 1 QB beat another QB when they are NEVER on the field playing against each other. Yes the QB is the most important position on the field but in order for him to be successful at least 1/2 of the other 10 guys have to do their jobs. And the way stats are calculated is so off. QB throws a 8 yrd slant and the WR runs for 40yrds and the QB get's the 40 yds. , A QB throws a perfect pass and the WR has butterfingers and pops the ball up and it's picked and it's charged to the QB. When the opposing team has a big lead and the D plays soft a QB will rack up big garbage yds trying to make a comeback. There are just way too many variables.
There is no QB stat that will give you a definitive grade on a QB. The only one that misses the mark but comes the closest is QBR

Are we talking about ESPN's QBR or are we talking about QB rating because a QB rating is just a calculation of basic raw stats. It sounds like some of the things that you are talking about is what ESPN's QBR tries to address.

 

[Rouxble]

The issue is that people put way too much credence in stats to quantify how good or bad a QB is in a major TEAM game. You can do that in Baseball like hitting % and to some extent Basketball such as 3pt % . But in football it's just not an individualistic sport. I always thought it was ridiculous to say that 1 QB beat another QB when they are NEVER on the field playing against each other. Yes the QB is the most important position on the field but in order for him to be successful at least 1/2 of the other 10 guys have to do their jobs. And the way stats are calculated is so off. QB throws a 8 yrd slant and the WR runs for 40yrds and the QB get's the 40 yds. , A QB throws a perfect pass and the WR has butterfingers and pops the ball up and it's picked and it's charged to the QB. When the opposing team has a big lead and the D plays soft a QB will rack up big garbage yds trying to make a comeback. There are just way too many variables.
There is no QB stat that will give you a definitive grade on a QB. The only one that misses the mark but comes the closest is QBR

Some of the new advanced stats help to differentiate the QB’s, but they aren’t always publicly available. For example, PFF tracks QB accuracy by accounting for drops and throwaways, so you can get a better idea of which QB is better at putting the ball on target. They also compare QB’s in similar situations (ex. against the blitz, under pressure, playaction etc) to eliminate whether one QB saw more of a situation than another—instead, they ask how do they perform in the same situation?

All that said, Football Outsiders (now FTN I guess) always did a good job of qualifying their individual player stats. They would say that this stat reflects this players performance with this coach and this scheme and these teammates etc. Can’t control for everything, but FTN does control for the opposition and game situation when calculating things like DVOA. You control for as much as you can to get the best comparison possible.

 

[SWJJ]

GTHOH with "projections."

That aside, Cousins has always been a great Fantasy QB, but he disappears in big moments. He doesn't play well at night or in the playoffs. He's basically Dak, but with less ability to get the first down with his feet.

So Cousins is top 3, I'll give you 5, and you tell me who you are gonna replace Cousins with?

1.Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Lamar
4. Burrow
5. Hurts
6. Dak
7. Herbert
8. Tua


All these are easily better QBs than Cousins.

 

[Consigliere]

Carr is comfortable in the offense, but the offense still lacks an identity

The offense has an identity. The identity is offensive.

"New QB, great skill positions, poor offensive line, OC is over his head and knows it."

That's the identity.

 

[SWJJ]

Confirmed


What kinda football are you looking at if you don't believe that Kirk Cousins was one of the best QBs (easily) in the league before his injury? lol


I'll sign up for that every day of the week.

You can have him on Mondays.

He's 3-10 on Monday night football.

 

[jahsoul357]

GTHOH with "projections."

That aside, Cousins has always been a great Fantasy QB, but he disappears in big moments. He doesn't play well at night or in the playoffs. He's basically Dak, but with less ability to get the first down with his feet.

So Cousins is top 3, I'll give you 5, and you tell me who you are gonna replace Cousins with?

1.Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Lamar
4. Burrow
5. Hurts
6. Dak
7. Herbert
8. Tua


All these are easily better QBs than Cousins.

What does any of this have to do with this season and no matter how you want to slice it, Kirk Cousins was having a better season than nearly everybody that you listed before being hurt. If you kept up with it, you would know their run game was the issue.

This shows where Kirk Cousins was among passers and where the Vikings ranked in passing offense.

Vikings Statistical Rankings Through Week 8: Offense

Here is a look at the Vikings statistical rankings through Week 8 of the NFL season.

purpleptsd.com

You can have him on Mondays.

He's 3-10 on Monday night football.

Again, what does this have to do with this season, where he was 1-0 on MNF against *checks notes* the 49ers...

 

[Judge_Smails]

What does any of this have to do with this season and no matter how you want to slice it, Kirk Cousins was having a better season than nearly everybody that you listed before being hurt. If you kept up with it, you would know their run game was the issue.

This shows where Kirk Cousins was among passers and where the Vikings ranked in passing offense.

Vikings Statistical Rankings Through Week 8: Offense

Here is a look at the Vikings statistical rankings through Week 8 of the NFL season.

purpleptsd.com

Again, what does this have to do with this season, where he was 1-0 on MNF against *checks notes* the 49ers...

You know how it works around here. Past seasons can be used to judge some QBs, but not others.

For the record, I have never been a Cousins fan, but he was definitely playing the best he’s ever played before getting hurt earlier this year. And that was with an absent run game and Jefferson missing multiple games.

 

[DSnfla]

Are we talking about ESPN's QBR or are we talking about QB rating because a QB rating is just a calculation of basic raw stats. It sounds like some of the things that you are talking about is what ESPN's QBR tries to address.

I think that ESPN's rating is a bit more telling