Whose side are you on? (1 Viewer)

[guidomerkinsrules]

What the teacher should have done in the first place was tell the student that their last project was not necessary given the previous projects that were submitted. The teacher was in the wrong in making the student submit another project. That said, the student should have taken the high road and either completed a full project with minimal effort or stood his ground and refused based on what the policy stated. Instead, he chose to stoop below the teacher's level just to make a point. They were both in the wrong, but the student did technically follow the policy. Unless you are a lawyer, that type of attitude won't win you any friends in business.

I reckon all told I’ve had about 1000 students and I usually cite 2 ‘above and beyond’ students
1 college student was a single mom of three putting herself back through school- she was so excited to be working on/for herself that she would regularly turn in 10 page papers early when 5 pages were assigned
1 HS student would typically create 5-7 minute pieces when I asked for around 2 minutes
And I’ve taught some GREAT students

In no way would I expect a student to turn in a project for funsies

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

It seems obvious to me that the teacher screwed this up and not the student. What the teacher should have done is simply say the student didn't need to submit anything since the last assignment was pointless.

The student went through all of the proper steps to ensure he didn't do what he didn't need to do. The teacher should say something like if you score an A average on 4 exams, the 5th is optional. If you don't have an A average, the 5th becomes mandatory.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what the student did. I probably would have done the same thing.

This is also why I ask students to repeat assignments back to me
Primarily to see if they understood
But close behind that to make sure that I explained properly- I know I can be a bit circular and expansive in my explanations and sometimes I miss things or fail to put enough emphasis on the crucial parts

 

[SystemShock]

I'm talking about his attitude towards the situation and how that attitude will serve him in the future.

Which attitude? Being efficient and not wasting time in unnecessary tasks while there is more important work to do?

 

[rajncajn]

Which attitude? Being efficient and not wasting time in unnecessary tasks while there is more important work to do?

The attitude of knowing what the teacher expected and shirking it off because he knew he could get away with it. But also taking it a step further and turning in the assignment the way that he did knowing it would likely piss him off.

 

[rajncajn]

This "attitude" you're talking about is really a poor assumption. If anything, he's being efficient with his time, which is something that would actually help him down the road. What he did here was actually seek clarification of expectations, then acted accordingly. That's a good trait.

I never once had a teacher get on my case about skipping a homework assignment if it was optional. No hard feelings and it never caused any issue with work for me in my 30 years in the workforce.

I don't think it's a poor assumption given the way he described it. He said it was "long and annoying" and he was busy with "other things." The story also started out with "If you don't want me to take advantage of your grading policy..." I think one doesn't need to assume that he has a very blase' attitude about it. Maybe if he'd elaborated about what else was so pressing that he didn't have time or he hadn't said that it was annoying then I wouldn't feel like he had a bad attitude.

 

[Dago]

The attitude of knowing what the teacher expected and shirking it off because he knew he could get away with it. But also taking it a step further and turning in the assignment the way that he did knowing it would likely piss him off.

Your whole premise is based on this kid reading minds. Knowing the instructors intent despite what the instructor gave them, knowing it would piss the instructor off.

As I said before, its arbitrary and capricious. You keep trying to use a business analogy with this, and it doesn't work. First, the kid isn't an employee....he is paying to be there. Second, I don't know what kind of contractual law you are talking about, but judges generally would side with whoever is in the kid's position if the contract is arbitrary and capricious. There are laws as to what constitutes a binding, enforceable contract. Your analogy is wrong

 

[rajncajn]

One has nothing to do with the other. One pays the bills, the other doesn't. One was optional, the other isn't.

I said in the very beginning and repeated more than once, IF he takes that kind of attitude with him in the future.

 

[SystemShock]

The attitude of knowing what the teacher expected

What a teacher can expect should be what the teacher themselves detail in the syllabus and the rubrics for the assignments.

and shirking it off because he knew he could get away with it.

But the student didn't shrink it. The assignment's rubric said the student would get 5 points if they turned name and title only. That sets the minimum requirement for what is accepted as "task complete". The student did name, title, and a brief summary, so that is actually more than the minimum

But also taking it a step further and turning in the assignment the way that he did knowing it would likely piss him off.

If the teacher is pissed that a student followed the teacher's own rules and parameters, that's on the teacher.

And who's the adult in that situation?

 

[rajncajn]

And who's the adult in that situation?

I would say neither of them.

 

[SystemShock]

I would say neither of them.

So what makes you side with the teacher "morally", then?

 

[rajncajn]

So what makes you side with the teacher "morally", then?

It was the wrong choice of words. Id say it's more a matter of siding against the student from a moral perspective rather than siding with the teacher.

 

[SystemShock]

It was the wrong choice of words. Id say it's more a matter of siding against the student from a moral perspective rather than siding with the teacher.

And what is immoral about what the student did?

 

[DaveXA]

And what is immoral about what the student did?

Yeah, I'm trying to figure that out as well.

 

[sonicboom]

I don't know, but sometimes I regret not dropping out of high school. lol

You spend 12 years in public/private school, so you can qualify for a job at Subway, or other minimum wage job. You spend 4-8 years in college, so you can have a large student loan, and probably a wage, that you can barely live on. Scrap 8-10 years of school and substitute it for working a job, or starting a business, and I think most would be better off.

I know high school drop outs, that make more than doctors, and lawyers. The school system needs a massive upgrade, but no student left behind, or something.

 

[Yatman]

And what is immoral about what the student did?

not a thing

professors like being the smartest person in a room, even when they aren't

kid played by the rules, clarified a possible point of enforcement, then took a knee at the five yard line

prof ego bruised twice, ha ha