Why are the Saints so bad at running the football? (2 Viewers)

[Lustmord]

O line- its a pass pro line, not a mauling one- id like to see peening at guard

 

[SweetT]

I do agree with this but when you pay as much money for someone like Williams you expect he can earn his keep. I think its more play calling and run blocking but so far Williams has not met expectations at all.

But if a player is not playing up to par, then it would make no sense to play him, just bc he signed for a nice contract. If anyone watched Jamal last year, he mainly just scored TDs. He wasn’t that great rushing the ball consistently. We should rely on AK41 to get the W in the bag, then use Jamal to ice the game. It’s a win/win

 

[meily]

We aren't that creative in trying to get our running backs to the outside, we are just running them up the backs of the lineman as we have not had a good amount of success creating running lanes between the tackles, we have to mix in some traps and counters.

 

[RadsRock]

Other than a few seasons sprinkled in here and there the Payton scheme has never been great at running the ball. Inconsistent at best and just bad at worst.

I can't agree with this. "Never great" OK. And of course with Drew under center we were always pass first.

But when we ran, it was generally effective. With defenses focused on pass, guys like PT, Sproles, Chris Ivory, First Time Ingram, AK, etc got yardage.

I went back as far as 09 and never in that span were we this bad. Twice we were at 3.8 ypc, but those were outliers. Best was 2011 (Ingram, Thomas, Sproles, and a little bit of Ivory) at 4.9 YPC, good for 4th in the league. Median team YPC for 09-22 is 4.3, which would have us at a respectable #10 this year.

Never great... But used to be effective.

 

[blackadder]

I can't agree with this. "Never great" OK. And of course with Drew under center we were always pass first.

But when we ran, it was generally effective. With defenses focused on pass, guys like PT, Sproles, Chris Ivory, First Time Ingram, AK, etc got yardage.

I went back as far as 09 and never in that span were we this bad. Twice we were at 3.8 ypc, but those were outliers. Best was 2011 (Ingram, Thomas, Sproles, and a little bit of Ivory) at 4.9 YPC, good for 4th in the league. Median team YPC for 09-22 is 4.3, which would have us at a respectable #10 this year.

Never great... But used to be effective.

2019 with Evans and NIcks up front we were good. Could move the pile.

After drew left, we were more consistent and better running the football. There was a very loooong drought in there before Kamara arrived when we were TERRIBLE up front. Always pushed back. Struggled to get a 3rd and 1.

It was so bad at one point Payton was running trick plays just to get a yard. There low point I recall was a game where Payton tried something like a TE reverse to Josh Hill to get a yard, and it failed.

A lot of it since Kamara arrived was just Payton being Payton and refusing to take what the defense offered, especially in key situations when a run was they right thing. One run vs the Rams in NFCCG on that critical series and maybe history is different.

But the run game for most of Brees career was neglected because that reflected the insitncts of the coach, and to the extent that lives on with Charmichael, we will still see similar outcomes.

 

[Hank]

I was looking at league stats by team. The one area that we are particularly weak in is yards per carry. We rush for 3.7 ypc. The only worse teams at running the ball are the Jags and Raiders at 3.6 and the Bucs at 3.5.

I couldn’t find the ypc breakdown by player, but I would imagine, without Taysom, we would be the worst in the league.

We have five first round draft pick offensive linemen that we drafted on the team. Are any of our offensive linemen good run blockers? Are any particularly bad? Is it the coaching: OL coach, OC?

60% OL
20% PC & Marrone
20% The Rbs

 

[guillermo]

Drives me bunkers seeing repeatedly the saints runners crushing at the back of the offensive line, while running off-tackle on first downs.

We don't know how to use Jamaal Williams. He should be half of the equation at the running game, and he plays so sporadically.

We absolutely lack creativity at the running game. I was very impressed yesterday night with how creative the run game is with the Seahawks. They used formations with two tight ends and a running back at the pistol. They also used the tight ends to unbalance the line of scrimmage to one side.

With the personnel we have, we should be using Jamaal Williams playing behind the fullback. Use him in play-action passes, having him with Alvin at the same time, more power sets, etc.

We know the biggest problem we have is our offensive line, but some creativity will also help.

We may agree on Pete leaving, but I don't see any progress if Marrone stays.

 

[saintsmarchin]

I dont know but it seems to me that the Oline is putting it altogether.. so thats a plus.

 

[Hank]

Drives me bunkers seeing repeatedly the saints runners crushing at the back of the offensive line, while running off-tackle on first downs.

We don't know how to use Jamaal Williams. He should be half of the equation at the running game, and he plays so sporadically.

We absolutely lack creativity at the running game. I was very impressed yesterday night with how creative the run game is with the Seahawks. They used formations with two tight ends and a running back at the pistol. They also used the tight ends to unbalance the line of scrimmage to one side.

With the personnel we have, we should be using Jamaal Williams playing behind the fullback. Use him in play-action passes, having him with Alvin at the same time, more power sets, etc.

We know the biggest problem we have is our offensive line, but some creativity will also help.

We may agree on Pete leaving, but I don't see any progress if Marrone stays.

Not sure what we thought we were getting with Jamal Williams--we bought him after 1 good year- 2020 1K yards and a bunch of 3 yard touchdown runs. Prior years he was an average RB

 

[FlySaint]

Super predictable play calling. I wonder what percentage of our first down plays are runs up the middle with AK? It’s got to be high. And while he can do it repeatedly running AK up the middle is not playing to his strengths. He’s a spade player, get him into space.

Poor o line play is also obviously a big factor. How often is AK hit immediately in the backfield? Ram and Ruiz have not been stellar, the rest just average.

But PC is the main reason.

 

[Hank]

I dont know but it seems to me that the Oline is putting it altogether.. so thats a plus.

Unfortunately when Penning was playing OL, he caused the entire line to suck
Not sure his role going forward, Guard perhaps--maybe 2nd string
Peat, Hurst, McCoy, Ruiz, Young (Ram?) have been pretty good-not great--enough to win games. Ram's chronic injuries may cause his career to be cut short. His time is limited--but we owe his a bunch of money

 

[RLS1992]

It’s gotta be coaching, scheming, and planning. We brought in Williams to give Kamara a break, and yet, we hardly use him. He is more than capable of churning out tough yards.. makes no sense to me.

 

[Artifactual]

Without rookie RB Kendre Miller most of the year the Saints have relied on Alvin Kamara, Taysom Hill, and Jamaal Williams as their 3 workhorses so far in 2023 in the running game.

Taysom Hill is averaging 4.9 yards per carry on 71 attempts for 347 yards. Alvin Kamara is averaging 3.9 yards per carry on 161 attempts for 630 yards. Jamaal Williams is averaging 3.0 yards per carry on 71 attempts for 214 yards.

They are the Saints three leading rushers with AK41 averaging 14.6 attempts per game and TH7 averaging 5.5 attempts per game and JW21 averaging 5.0 attempts per game.

55% of Alvin's carries have come on 1st down where he is averaging 3.7 yards per attempt. Taysom has rushed 63% of the time on 1st down where he is averaging 5.0 yards per attempt on. Jamaal has rushed 59% of the time on 1st down where he is averaging 2.8 yards per carry.

The cumulative from these three is a total of 303 rushing attempts for 1,191 yards, an average of 3.93 yards per carry and they have carried the ball on 1st down 175 times for 665 yards for a 3.8 yards per carry average on 1st downs.

So far in 2023 the Saints have ran the ball 33.82% of the time on 1st down, 14th most in the league.

So far in 2023 the Saints have ran the ball 42.5% of the time, 17th highest in the league.

The Saints appear to be a middle of the pack rushing team, ranked 19th overall in total rushing yards.

A deeper look shows the Saints to be #9 in rushing attempts but #29 in yards per rush at 3.7 yards per attempt. Ouch !

 

[blackadder]

Drives me bunkers seeing repeatedly the saints runners crushing at the back of the offensive line, while running off-tackle on first downs.

We don't know how to use Jamaal Williams. He should be half of the equation at the running game, and he plays so sporadically.

We absolutely lack creativity at the running game. I was very impressed yesterday night with how creative the run game is with the Seahawks. They used formations with two tight ends and a running back at the pistol. They also used the tight ends to unbalance the line of scrimmage to one side.

With the personnel we have, we should be using Jamaal Williams playing behind the fullback. Use him in play-action passes, having him with Alvin at the same time, more power sets, etc.

We know the biggest problem we have is our offensive line, but some creativity will also help.

We may agree on Pete leaving, but I don't see any progress if Marrone stays.

We have always lacked creativity in the run game in the Payton/Carmichael era. Always feels like an afterthought or just filler to take a break between passes.

The idea of thinking creatively about it seemed lost. So many times Taysom Hill was dominating and then…he just goes away….

It’s been a theme across what would soon be 2 decades.

 

[Saint KayBee]

2019 with Evans and NIcks up front we were good. Could move the pile.

After drew left, we were more consistent and better running the football. There was a very loooong drought in there before Kamara arrived when we were TERRIBLE up front. Always pushed back. Struggled to get a 3rd and 1.

It was so bad at one point Payton was running trick plays just to get a yard. There low point I recall was a game where Payton tried something like a TE reverse to Josh Hill to get a yard, and it failed.

4th and 1 vs the Jets at like midfield and that was rookie Josh Hill touching the ball for the 3rd time in his professional life the play before was to Jed Collins

A lot of it since Kamara arrived was just Payton being Payton and refusing to take what the defense offered, especially in key situations when a run was they right thing. One run vs the Rams in NFCCG on that critical series and maybe history is different.

But the run game for most of Brees career was neglected because that reflected the insitncts of the coach, and to the extent that lives on with Charmichael, we will still see similar outcomes.

Agreed here, didn’t Parcells call it “the virus”?