Winning out: What does it even look like? (1 Viewer)

[Nolan]

Look, I know there's a lot of you on this board who aren't interested in winning anymore games and would rather the high pick, and I get that. But if all you have to add to the discussion is a negative comment about there being no point, then just skip this thread. It's clear that Sean and this coaching staff are wanting to compete for as long as we have a chance. The point of this thread is.. What does that recipe look like?

Defensively, I feel like this is a rather easy discussion. We're far more healthy on that side of the football. Going into this season, I felt like we had a Championship level defense. While we were healthy, it sure looked that way. Now that Chauncey is back, I feel like we can get back to playing at that level defensively. We're solid at all levels, and Davenport is back. Teams can't run on us and they really know it. For as long as we're playing at a remotely competant level offensively, this defense will keep us in every single game that we play.. Which leads me to the offense.

We absolutely have to resemble an NFL offense. We have to possess the ball; limit the 3 and outs. Stay out of 3rd and 10+. Punts are okay, play the field position game. Ingram coming back should help out a lot; Tony Jones doesn't nearly have the vision or running ability that Ingram does. Him returning should allow us to lean on Kamara less in the running game, and more in the passing game. My only concern is getting it to him consistently; we threw to him twice on HB option on Sunday, but Taysom put the ball in a spot where he can run after the catch. It's no secret that I'm not a believer in Taysom as a long-term quarterback in this league, but I do think we can grind out wins with him if we play our cards right.

We have to find a way to be effective on the ground game on early downs.. which will be super tough with no real threat at receiver. But if we can limit the amount of times we're stopped for loss and no gain I think it'll go a long way. 3rd and 4-6 is super managable with our offense. Heavy dose of Kamara on outside zone, bang Ingram up inside. I'd love to run more zone/read with Taysom and Kamara. Keep running QB power and QB sweep, but at some point we need to mix up how we get Taysom out in the open on designed runs. I'd love to see us take a couple plays from the Bills playbook in how they use Josh Allen, particularly the QB draws that they run are super well designed. Continue the bootlegs, they are very effective, especially if we can keep Kamara rolling on the outside zone runs. Limit the sacks, limit the negative plays. Possess the ball, keep the ball, find ways to get points at all costs. Keep our defense fresh. Turnovers can't happen.

Obviously our toughest game of the 4 game stretch is coming up, but I strangely do think that we have a chance. Defensively we've played incredibly well in all 4 of our matchups versus the Tom Brady led Bucs, even in our playoff loss, the only reason we lost that game was giving them points off of turnovers. The defense will rise up for this game, we just have to find a way to scratch and claw our way to points because it will not be easy. We want to run the ball, and they're rather good at stopping the run. Getting 2-3 yards a pop would be a huge win versus this defense. I wouldn't even attempt running any sort of screen against this defense.. they're almost a guaranteed negative play with David and White at linebacker. If we can stay in 3rd and managable consistently, we'll have a really good shot. If we're constantly facing 3rd and long, the game will be as good as over.

TLDR: Lean on the 3 headed monster of Kamara/Ingram/Taysom in the run game, stay in 3rd and managable offensively. Get more creative with designed QB runs. Rely on the defense, as it's close to being whole again. Chauncey isn't the best player we have on defense, but he's the secret sauce that brings us to an elite level. We have 4 games left. I'd rather make the playoffs than not. As a fan, the excitement of wild card weekend is great.. just knowing that you're in the dance, even if on paper we don't belong. And for the sake of our team and it's future, I think it's important to keep the winning culture that we've established with this locker room, especially post-Brees. Even if it's not pretty.

 

[SWJJ]

The simple truth is that Defense wins championships.

We have a VERY GOOD defense.

We can win the championship.

LET's GO!

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I will say this, playing the power run game plays right into Tampa's defensive strength. They're weak on the boundaries, but we're even weaker on the outside. Our best bet is to beat TB into making bad decisions and take advantage of the short field. We're going to need the defense to ball out...better than what they did this past weekend because the jets were terrible and we weren't able to take advantage of some piss poor throws from Wilson.

 

[Nolan]

I will say this, playing the power run game plays right into Tampa's defensive strength. They're weak on the boundaries, but we're even weaker on the outside. Our best bet is to beat TB into making bad decisions and take advantage of the short field. We're going to need the defense to ball out...better than what they did this past weekend because the jets were terrible and we weren't able to take advantage of some piss poor throws from Wilson.

I hear that, but I guess I'm just snakebitten by previous visions of White and David literally gobbling up every single swing pass, toss, screen that we attempted. I love the idea of running a lot out of shotgun with the threat of Taysom keeping. It's playing 11 on 10 if Taysom makes the correct read.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I hear that, but I guess I'm just snakebitten by previous visions of White and David literally gobbling up every single swing pass, toss, screen that we attempted. I love the idea of running a lot out of shotgun with the threat of Taysom keeping. It's playing 11 on 10 if Taysom makes the correct read.

Right, that short lateral stuff isn't going to work because of their LB speed...their DBs are their weakness, get the ball upfield and away from their DL and LBs...anything close to the LOS is going to get gobbled up.

 

[Bill]

Look, I know there's a lot of you on this board who aren't interested in winning anymore games and would rather the high pick, and I get that. But if all you have to add to the discussion is a negative comment about there being no point, then just skip this thread. It's clear that Sean and this coaching staff are wanting to compete for as long as we have a chance. The point of this thread is.. What does that recipe look like?

Defensively, I feel like this is a rather easy discussion. We're far more healthy on that side of the football. Going into this season, I felt like we had a Championship level defense. While we were healthy, it sure looked that way. Now that Chauncey is back, I feel like we can get back to playing at that level defensively. We're solid at all levels, and Davenport is back. Teams can't run on us and they really know it. For as long as we're playing at a remotely competant level offensively, this defense will keep us in every single game that we play.. Which leads me to the offense.

We absolutely have to resemble an NFL offense. We have to possess the ball; limit the 3 and outs. Stay out of 3rd and 10+. Punts are okay, play the field position game. Ingram coming back should help out a lot; Tony Jones doesn't nearly have the vision or running ability that Ingram does. Him returning should allow us to lean on Kamara less in the running game, and more in the passing game. My only concern is getting it to him consistently; we threw to him twice on HB option on Sunday, but Taysom put the ball in a spot where he can run after the catch. It's no secret that I'm not a believer in Taysom as a long-term quarterback in this league, but I do think we can grind out wins with him if we play our cards right.

We have to find a way to be effective on the ground game on early downs.. which will be super tough with no real threat at receiver. But if we can limit the amount of times we're stopped for loss and no gain I think it'll go a long way. 3rd and 4-6 is super managable with our offense. Heavy dose of Kamara on outside zone, bang Ingram up inside. I'd love to run more zone/read with Taysom and Kamara. Keep running QB power and QB sweep, but at some point we need to mix up how we get Taysom out in the open on designed runs. I'd love to see us take a couple plays from the Bills playbook in how they use Josh Allen, particularly the QB draws that they run are super well designed. Continue the bootlegs, they are very effective, especially if we can keep Kamara rolling on the outside zone runs. Limit the sacks, limit the negative plays. Possess the ball, keep the ball, find ways to get points at all costs. Keep our defense fresh. Turnovers can't happen.

Obviously our toughest game of the 4 game stretch is coming up, but I strangely do think that we have a chance. Defensively we've played incredibly well in all 4 of our matchups versus the Tom Brady led Bucs, even in our playoff loss, the only reason we lost that game was giving them points off of turnovers. The defense will rise up for this game, we just have to find a way to scratch and claw our way to points because it will not be easy. We want to run the ball, and they're rather good at stopping the run. Getting 2-3 yards a pop would be a huge win versus this defense. I wouldn't even attempt running any sort of screen against this defense.. they're almost a guaranteed negative play with David and White at linebacker. If we can stay in 3rd and managable consistently, we'll have a really good shot. If we're constantly facing 3rd and long, the game will be as good as over.

TLDR: Lean on the 3 headed monster of Kamara/Ingram/Taysom in the run game, stay in 3rd and managable offensively. Get more creative with designed QB runs. Rely on the defense, as it's close to being whole again. Chauncey isn't the best player we have on defense, but he's the secret sauce that brings us to an elite level. We have 4 games left. I'd rather make the playoffs than not. As a fan, the excitement of wild card weekend is great.. just knowing that you're in the dance, even if on paper we don't belong. And for the sake of our team and it's future, I think it's important to keep the winning culture that we've established with this locker room, especially post-Brees. Even if it's not pretty.

Thanks for this well thought out post. I especially appreciated the list of 'dos & don'ts' that you highlighted as being necessary for punching our ticket to the postseason, because ultimately this is what the football season is all about. I've heard enough "Wait Til Next Year" cries for my entire lifetime, and I'd prefer to see the winning tradition continue just as your post made clear.

 

[Low Energy]

Winning out gives us our best chance, but we actually don’t need this win against TB to still get the seventh seed. The teams bunched up with us at six wins are WAS, MIN, PHI, & ATL. If we go three out of four we have nine wins and need the other teams to lose at least two each. WAS and PHI play each other twice and each still play DAL. If they split wins and both lose to DAL, that’s their two loses. MIN still has to play LA Rams and GB,,,their two possible losses. That leaves ATL, that still has SF, DET, BUF, and us. I can see two losses there. NYG could potentially play spoiler with WAS and PHI also because they play each, but I didn’t count on that for this scenario.

If that scenario were to play out and SF were to lose a game and end up with nine wins also, we would actually take the sixth seed. There are many scenarios but I thought this was probably the most plausible.

Been playing with the playoff generator on ESPN.

 

[gregh]

if majority of players return ( not on season ending IR ) we should be competitive in all the games, except maybe tampa, but we match them well defensively so who knows...

 

[big screen D]

Props to the Op. Great thread.

I'll add that it's imperative Maher gets in a groove. Just can't lose any more games because of missed FGs and PATs.

 

[gregh]

man those two last min losses to the falcons and giants are killers, 6-7 vs 8-5 and it would just about be locked in as a playoff birth at this point..

 

[Meachemdat]

I will say this, playing the power run game plays right into Tampa's defensive strength. They're weak on the boundaries, but we're even weaker on the outside. Our best bet is to beat TB into making bad decisions and take advantage of the short field. We're going to need the defense to ball out...better than what they did this past weekend because the jets were terrible and we weren't able to take advantage of some piss poor throws from Wilson.

Yeah, I'm prepared for a huge letdown on the defense. They will have to play world's better this weekend for us to have a chance. The Jet's complete and total ineptitude hid our broken coverages and 0 pass rush Sunday.

 

[Sailorsaint]

man those two last min losses to the falcons and giants are killers, 6-7 vs 8-5 and it would just about be locked in as a playoff birth at this point..

There were at least a couple wins left out there on the foot of our kicker.

 

[jasonsw]

Im hoping for Sunday Taysom turns into Young, Callaway into Rice, White into Moss and Juwan into Kittle

 

[ndcc]

Good topic by the OP; good job.

Here’s my deep, detailed and analytical offering:

One-game-at-a-time.

 

[Kegger]

Win coin toss and defer. Get a stop on D. Once we get the ball, we just run one play that takes 15 minutes by playing keepaway/illegal forward passes/etc. Then do it again to burn up the whole half. Same thing in the second half, except take a knee with 1 second left in the 4th quarter. Then on the last play of the game we throw a hail mary and win. Rinse/repeat.