Winning out: What does it even look like? (2 Viewers)

[mc4saints]

Im hoping for Sunday Taysom turns into Young, Callaway into Rice, White into Moss and Juwan into Kittle

At least you aren't asking for much.

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

To have a chance.. The defense has to play at the level we know they are capable of.

We have to figure out how to generate some pass rush. It's clearly lacking. Luckily, the secondary has held up pretty well, but it's tough when you give QBs tons of time.
Generate more turnovers. That is helped greatly by pass rush.
Make the tackles. Missed tackles have been a problem lately. We have to be better.

The offense has to play efficiently. We don't have a lot of room for error with our lack of weapons.

Run the ball effectively. Rely on the screen game and QB keeps. These are our greatest strengths on offense, and we can wear defenses down if we can keep the chains moving.
When we do pass, it's kind of obvious, but receivers have to get open and CATCH the ball when given a shot. I'd like to see more of the Taysom to Johnson connection. They seem to have good chemistry.
Playcalling has to be near perfect.
Execution has to be better.
Many guys have to elevate their level of play.
Ball security is key.

Special teams. Just don't suck it up is all we can ask. Missing Lutz and Harris is tough. We just need respectable play from their replacements.

Overall, it's a tall order, and again, there's very little room for error. If we can figure out how to squeak out a string of wins and sneak into the playoffs, it would be an incredible feat. If that happened, I wouldn't even say we don't deserve to be there, because that means we worked our butts off to get there.

 

[Hey BAY BAY!!!]

Saints win if--Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. Get in watch film and just ball out. Prepare yourself to put on a show Sunday night.

 

[Bill]

Saints win if--Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. Get in watch film and just ball out. Prepare yourself to put on a show Sunday night.

... and it wouldn't hurt if the officials catch all the OPI that Evans is going to be guilty of.

 

[Nolan]

Circling back on this, since we're a quarter of the way there and just beat the most challenging matchup left on our schedule. I pointed out some things that I was hoping to see, some of it was accomplished, some of it was ugly. Defensively, once again this is a short and easy discussion. The secret sauce is back (Chauncey), we have all 11 starters healthy, and we have the Bucs number. Even when Godwin/Evans/Fournette were all in, they weren't moving the ball. If we make the playoffs, it'll without a doubt be because of this unit.

Offensively, it was really bad. We did some things well early, but then it turned really really ugly. Taysom started out with some accurate balls. Kamara had a solid average in the first half considering the defense we were going up against (6 for 18 but one carry was a weird toss for -3 yards), but we moved the ball a little, only had 1 three and out, played the field position game well, and scraped together 6 points. But in the 2nd half, it was so bad to watch. 4 straight three and outs. Too much early down dropback passing. Kamara was getting solid yardage in the first half off of inside zone, yet we started trying to get him out on tosses which I even said going in would be ineffective versus this defense.

Here's what I want to see less of, and what I want to see more of going forward:

Early down dropback passing: Just why? It doesn't make sense given our roster makeup right now, even when our tackles comeback healthy. Everything we do, until we get to a 3rd and long, should be set up off of the appearance of a running play. Taysom started out relatively accurate and decisive with the ball, but even with the positive throws early, it was still an overall negative performance. He was inaccurate with the ball frequently on throws to Kamara, Marquez, and TreQuan. He had two balls that should have been intercepted if not for an insanely smart heads up play by Marquez and then a terrible drop by the Bucs safety Adams in their territory that would have kept it a 1 score game when all we needed was a FG to make it a 2 score game. The third down miss to Kamara on the option route was terrible, it's an easy throw. He didn't even give him a chance on the shot to the endzone in a 1 on 1 matchup. His pocket presence still isn't there yet, and has a hard time escaping when it breaks down. Even that being said, I still think he can be effective but we need to a better job of putting him in a position to succeed. Dropback passes without the threat of a run on early downs? Please no more. Show the threat of a run play until it's 3rd and long.

Zone read with AK?: Yes! They finally went to some more zone read plays with him and Kamara, I've been SCREAMING for that. The designed QB runs (power, sweep, etc) have been effective with him, but eventually teams will sell out to stop it. With the threat of him putting it in the halfbacks belly, they really can't do that. I'd love to see a lot more of this, and less QB power/sweep. Still run them, but not nearly as much. When we were trying to put the game away, we went with three straight QB power plays. What? Why? It netted us -1 yard in the three play sequence. At least make the defense think about what might be coming. Telegraphing what you're doing makes it really easy for them. I understand the defense that we were going against, the likelihood of us icing the game even with traditional runs was slim, but running that same play 3 times in a row was downright silly. Especially when the zone read was effective, and Taysom was getting 6-8 yards on every keep.

I'm super pumped about the W, an amazing performance all around. Not trying to poopoo on our offense, just highlighting what worked and what didn't.

Going forward?
-Less dropback passing on early downs.
-Everything should appear like a run until we get to 3rd and long.
-Stop telegraphing QB runs.
-MORE zone read with AK. It's insanely effective. 11 on 10 football when the QB makes the right read.

We control our own destiny, let's do this thing.

 

[efil4stnias]

Circling back on this, since we're a quarter of the way there and just beat the most challenging matchup left on our schedule. I pointed out some things that I was hoping to see, some of it was accomplished, some of it was ugly. Defensively, once again this is a short and easy discussion. The secret sauce is back (Chauncey), we have all 11 starters healthy, and we have the Bucs number. Even when Godwin/Evans/Fournette were all in, they weren't moving the ball. If we make the playoffs, it'll without a doubt be because of this unit.

Offensively, it was really bad. We did some things well early, but then it turned really really ugly. Taysom started out with some accurate balls. Kamara had a solid average in the first half considering the defense we were going up against (6 for 18 but one carry was a weird toss for -3 yards), but we moved the ball a little, only had 1 three and out, played the field position game well, and scraped together 6 points. But in the 2nd half, it was so bad to watch. 4 straight three and outs. Too much early down dropback passing. Kamara was getting solid yardage in the first half off of inside zone, yet we started trying to get him out on tosses which I even said going in would be ineffective versus this defense.

Here's what I want to see less of, and what I want to see more of going forward:

Early down dropback passing: Just why? It doesn't make sense given our roster makeup right now, even when our tackles comeback healthy. Everything we do, until we get to a 3rd and long, should be set up off of the appearance of a running play. Taysom started out relatively accurate and decisive with the ball, but even with the positive throws early, it was still an overall negative performance. He was inaccurate with the ball frequently on throws to Kamara, Marquez, and TreQuan. He had two balls that should have been intercepted if not for an insanely smart heads up play by Marquez and then a terrible drop by the Bucs safety Adams in their territory that would have kept it a 1 score game when all we needed was a FG to make it a 2 score game. The third down miss to Kamara on the option route was terrible, it's an easy throw. He didn't even give him a chance on the shot to the endzone in a 1 on 1 matchup. His pocket presence still isn't there yet, and has a hard time escaping when it breaks down. Even that being said, I still think he can be effective but we need to a better job of putting him in a position to succeed. Dropback passes without the threat of a run on early downs? Please no more. Show the threat of a run play until it's 3rd and long.

Zone read with AK?: Yes! They finally went to some more zone read plays with him and Kamara, I've been SCREAMING for that. The designed QB runs (power, sweep, etc) have been effective with him, but eventually teams will sell out to stop it. With the threat of him putting it in the halfbacks belly, they really can't do that. I'd love to see a lot more of this, and less QB power/sweep. Still run them, but not nearly as much. When we were trying to put the game away, we went with three straight QB power plays. What? Why? It netted us -1 yard in the three play sequence. At least make the defense think about what might be coming. Telegraphing what you're doing makes it really easy for them. I understand the defense that we were going against, the likelihood of us icing the game even with traditional runs was slim, but running that same play 3 times in a row was downright silly. Especially when the zone read was effective, and Taysom was getting 6-8 yards on every keep.

I'm super pumped about the W, an amazing performance all around. Not trying to poopoo on our offense, just highlighting what worked and what didn't.

Going forward?
-Less dropback passing on early downs.
-Everything should appear like a run until we get to 3rd and long.
-Stop telegraphing QB runs.
-MORE zone read with AK. It's insanely effective. 11 on 10 football when the QB makes the right read.

We control our own destiny, let's do this thing.

We can telegraph - but when you have BOTH tackles and one Guard out, relying on backups to execute same plays that are usually quite successful, is a problem.

I think thats why they are going with short, quick passes, on early downs. We cannot execute with backups.

We need RAM and TA back in the worst way.

 

[Nolan]

We can telegraph - but when you have BOTH tackles and one Guard out, relying on backups to execute same plays that are usually quite successful, is a problem.

I think thats why they are going with short, quick passes, on early downs. We cannot execute with backups.

We need RAM and TA back in the worst way.

I just disagree here. Even when our tackles are healthy, even lesser defenses can and will sell out to stop QB power. We saw it in the Giants game. Sean had run the play effectively down in the redzone throughout the game, and on 3rd and 2 when all we really needed was 1 or 2 first downs to put the game away.. Sean went back to the well, and the Giants get the ball back. We know what happens after that.

We can't be overly reliant on that, especially when we have generational talent at HB. There's no reason that we shouldn't give the threat of AK. The threat of Taysom keeping will give him more room, and vice versa if they play for AK.

I'm not saying to stop running it, I'm simply suggesting to run less of it. Quality over quantity. QB runs with AK lined up next to him will be far more effective than when we telegraph QB run with either the FB in motion or lined up next to Hill.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Early down dropbacks had to happen last night, running inside played to Tampa's strength. Tampa's corners sucked, we had to try to take advantage. We had some success passing the ball early in the game, but that trailed off in the 2nd half.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Early down dropbacks had to happen last night, running inside played to Tampa's strength. Tampa's corners sucked, we had to try to take advantage. We had some success passing the ball early in the game, but that trailed off in the 2nd half.

TH looked decent in the first half. I really think his finger started affecting him in the second half. It's just something he is going to have to play through. Gotta give him props for what he has done so far, even with some of the bad throws last nite. And I'll add this, even if his finger was affecting his throws, he still made a few that should have been caught. Vannet missed a really good pass that would have put us in the red zone in the second half.

 

[Nolan]

Early down dropbacks had to happen last night, running inside played to Tampa's strength. Tampa's corners sucked, we had to try to take advantage. We had some success passing the ball early in the game, but that trailed off in the 2nd half.

Yep, we were successful when Taysom was decisive and accurate with the football, but the problem is that he was only decisive and accurate with the football for a quarter. I'm not suggesting to stop passing, but it needs to look different. Asking Taysom to be a pocket passer and go through progressions isn't the recipe to winning. More play-action, easy high-low reads. He'll eventually have to do it on 3rd and longs, but the idea is getting to less 3rd and longs if we're running what we're good at on early downs.

After we had gone 3 and out for our first four possessions in the 2nd half, what got us going in the 4th quarter enabling us to get that FG? Playaction bootleg, easy short pass to Callaway and with plenty of room for YAC, resulting in 17 yards.

After we're in FG range, and we just need to not screw it up, what almost blew the game?



2nd down drop-back, Taysom throwing into coverage in what should have been intercepted with plenty of grass to run. It's either a pick 6 to give them the lead, or at the very least the ball is deep in our territory with Tampa still down 6.

We have to run what we're good at. Taysom being a dropback passer ain't it.

 

[SWJJ]

Taysom is often decisive, but rarely accurate.

I LOVE him as a football player, but as a QB he still has a LOT of growth to do.

I hope he leads us to a championship, bad accuracy and all..

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Yep, we were successful when Taysom was decisive and accurate with the football, but the problem is that he was only decisive and accurate with the football for a quarter. I'm not suggesting to stop passing, but it needs to look different. Asking Taysom to be a pocket passer and go through progressions isn't the recipe to winning. More play-action, easy high-low reads. He'll eventually have to do it on 3rd and longs, but the idea is getting to less 3rd and longs if we're running what we're good at on early downs.

After we had gone 3 and out for our first four possessions in the 2nd half, what got us going in the 4th quarter enabling us to get that FG? Playaction bootleg, easy short pass to Callaway and with plenty of room for YAC, resulting in 17 yards.

After we're in FG range, and we just need to not screw it up, what almost blew the game?



2nd down drop-back, Taysom throwing into coverage in what should have been intercepted with plenty of grass to run. It's either a pick 6 to give them the lead, or at the very least the ball is deep in our territory with Tampa still down 6.

We have to run what we're good at. Taysom being a dropback passer ain't it.

It was a poor decision and I knew after that, he wasn't going to throw it again for the night. Next dropback, he "looked" at the field, then tucked and ran for a short gain.

We just need him to be Trent Dilfer for the playoff run.

 

[Bill]

Taysom is often decisive, but rarely accurate.

I LOVE him as a football player, but as a QB he still has a LOT of growth to do.

I hope he leads us to a championship, bad accuracy and all..

The only great pass Taysom threw last night was the rainbow that he dropped in a bucket over Callaway's shoulder. Besides that one it took some adjustments for our receivers to have a shot at making the catches. It may be a while before we see our QBs pinpointing passes like Drew used to do.

 

[efil4stnias]

I just disagree here. Even when our tackles are healthy, even lesser defenses can and will sell out to stop QB power. We saw it in the Giants game. Sean had run the play effectively down in the redzone throughout the game, and on 3rd and 2 when all we really needed was 1 or 2 first downs to put the game away.. Sean went back to the well, and the Giants get the ball back. We know what happens after that.

We can't be overly reliant on that, especially when we have generational talent at HB. There's no reason that we shouldn't give the threat of AK. The threat of Taysom keeping will give him more room, and vice versa if they play for AK.

I'm not saying to stop running it, I'm simply suggesting to run less of it. Quality over quantity. QB runs with AK lined up next to him will be far more effective than when we telegraph QB run with either the FB in motion or lined up next to Hill.

Oh i dont disagree on the type of runs,

but without our starting 2 tackles and guard, execution is what is killing us. Toss sweeps we usually see 3-5 yards out of AK.....he ran 3-4 last night and not a single one went for positive yards. ( the one positive was negated by a Hold on JJohnson ) The blocking was atrocious last night. Especially to the edges.

What really needs to happen is execution by QB and WR/TE- if we dont loosen them up by pass, forget the option play as you will face 9 in the box consistently.

Go back to TB playoff last year. They KNEW Drew couldnt push the ball past 30 yards. So they condensed their Defense ( almost like a red zone defense ) to take away run game and everything underneath. If you cannot threaten a defense with pass, while missing your 2 starting tackles and Guard, you better hope your Defense plays lights out. ( which we did last night)

I just hope that D performance springboards them for the last 3 games. It should. They should come out with the mindset of WE will win this game for us.

 

[BooBirdSaint]

This defense has struggled mightily against mobile QBs. Two of our remaining games will be vs mobile QBs. IDK but it won't be easy and there arent any gimmes.
I could see us losing to Miami very easily. We should be able to handle a CMacless Cryolina and Atl but it wont be easy.
Positive things will be we get both division rivals after they play tough opponents. Cryolina will have Tompa Bay before us and Atl at the Bills before our games. Miami could be the biggest test.