N/S Zack Baun: Highest Graded off ball LB Baun wins DPOTW award [Eagles Baun Thread] (13 Viewers)

[SonOfNOLA]

Except Baun is playing exactly the role that the Saints trained Baun to play and he was a square peg when they moved him to Mike. I get that DA was a terrible head coach, but not everything he did was wrong. At least not when it came to defense. And, IIRC, Anzalone's big problem here was that he could not stay healthy. Kind of similar to T-Rex until his last year here.

It’s interesting how much the FO or coaches are blamed for Saints FAs not being re-signed or having success elsewhere, while the Saints are having a losing season. Previous injuries, depth chart, or a long term deal not offered relevant to the player’s production are usually the reasons why some players aren’t re-signed. For Baun, the narrative is changing from Allen not playing Baun to his strengths to FO can’t evaluate talent once he’s having success in playing the same position as Demario. Neither are accurate since Baun was buried behind 3 LBs in 3 of his 4 seasons as a Saint. Baun was behind: Davis, Alexander, and Anzalone in ‘20; Davis, Alexander, and Werner in ‘21; then, Davis, Werner, and Elliss in ‘22. There wasn’t an opportunity for Baun to see major LB snaps and play to strengths before ‘23 unless there was injuries.

Lost in those stances on why Baun wasn’t re-signed also seems to be the fact that Baun made a FA decision to be a full time starting LB elsewhere. It was his decision to make the best choice for his future. Baun wasn’t going to be a full time starting MLB in New Orleans unless the Saints decided to cut ties with their All-Pro LB, who’s viewed as the top leader of the team, after more consecutive AP seasons. Most teams including playoff teams aren’t moving on from their team’s leader and defense’s best player while aging unless there’s an obvious decline. There’s definitely a case for moving on from Davis if Baun was showing he was ready to take over. But it appears Baun wasn’t at that level yet as mentioned. I think any team would choose the aging All-Pro LB to continue leading the team while he’s still playing at an elite level before choosing the younger LB, who’s in development, before he showed he can be the top LB. That seems to be how Baun’s free agency played out from both sides.

 

[B4YOU]

This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.

The bigger problem is the salary cap issues forcing us to keep aging veterans while letting young talent we developed walk.

 

[TribuneUK]

The bigger problem is the salary cap issues forcing us to keep aging veterans while letting young talent we developed walk.

Players choose where to go. That's why it's called 'free' agency. He wasn't overtaking Davis, so he went where he could start.

Or are you seriously suggesting the Saints should have used a transition tag* on a backup Mike backer to keep him around?

* Priced at a hair under $20m for one year. Top value.

 

[Rexman100]

This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.

I wonder if there punting the can causes this. Could it be we’re locked into the aging vets due to dead money hits, and therefore cannot promote the younger guys?

 

[TribuneUK]

I wonder if there punting the can causes this. Could it be we’re locked into the aging vets due to dead money hits, and therefore cannot promote the younger guys?

Demario All Pro Davis caused this.

The right reason is often the most obvious reason.

 

[St. Widge]

Generally speaking, it appears Baun is good enough to develop and now play a central role on a winning team’s LB corps, but he’s not doing it for the Saints.

The Saints have bad LB depth this year and DA didn’t keep him around and instead signed Gay, an inferior player.

If the Saints are still a perennial contender and mostly stacking wins, nobody cares as much, but when you’re bottoming out and start seeing the good players you drafted, showing out for other teams in ways they never did for you, the association/assumption is made.

It’s like how we got Demario and Vilma from the Jets and they were a million times more productive for the Saints than in NYJ. We loved it because the Jets obviously have mostly sucked at developing and maintaining talent and have frequently had talented players leave and THEN take their game to the next level.

Essentially the Saints are the Jets now.

It might just be coincidence/bad luck, but it’s also what happens to bad franchises and I think that underlying concern leads to a lot of the fan complaints about the ones that got away.

DA didn't decide not to sign Baun. Baun took about the same money we offered to go to the Eagles because he had a starting spot open there and he was going to be behind Davis and Werner here.

I think calling the Saints the Jets after losing a couple players and a few mediocre to bad seasons is an emotional overreaction.

The mistake made was choosing to continue to act like a contender and keep older players when they likely should have moved on from older players. That's what happened with Baun and Ellis.

 

[St. Widge]

I wonder if there punting the can causes this. Could it be we’re locked into the aging vets due to dead money hits, and therefore cannot promote the younger guys?

Gay makes more than Baun does with the Eagles. It wasn't about money. It was about the opportunity to play.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

I wonder if there punting the can causes this. Could it be we’re locked into the aging vets due to dead money hits, and therefore cannot promote the younger guys?

I think the Saints lock on to players who produce the most at their positions. Last season there wasn’t much talk about Baun being the future at MLB or competing with Werner. His pass rush performances last year were at the center of discussion but not starting at LB over Davis or Werner going forward. Baun didn’t have the opportunity to be the effective Mike that he’s able to be in Philly based on the Saints depth chart and defensive alignment.

 

[B4YOU]

Saints close to restrain the

Players choose where to go. That's why it's called 'free' agency. He wasn't overtaking Davis, so he went where he could start.

Or are you seriously suggesting the Saints should have used a transition tag* on a backup Mike backer to keep him around?

* Priced at a hair under $20m for one year. Top value.

I'm saying we are an aging team that should have moved on from Davis and Jordan at the end of 2023. We tied ourselves to those players with back end money. We have lost Roach, Oynemata, Baun, and Ellis as front 7 players while regressing on defense. We will likely extend HB until falls off a cliff too.

 

[jasonsw]

Demario Davis and Pete Werner were largely in Elliss and Baun’s way. They had a stronghold on LB snaps. It was impossible for Elliss and Baun to see the field as much as them while we only use 2 LBs most of the time.

Before this season, Davis and Werner have been very good and healthy to not get rotated out that much. Saints never significantly rotated LBs while having 2 every down LBs. FO should’ve eventually prepared for Davis’ age to show. But Baun didn’t want to wait for a starter job and a chance to earn a big contract while Davis has still been racking up All-Pro seasons. Neither Baun and Elliss rightfully couldn’t wait for Davis’ decline and/or for the Saints to move on.

This, plus I think he would of never succeeded here.

It's happens on every NFL team and in every sport an athlete gets moved or a team doesn't resign them and they have successful careers elsewhere.

Hell to come think of it, the Saints benefitted hugely from this in Drew Brees and DD himself.

Sometimes it works your way, sometimes it works the other way. It is just the nature of sports

 

[Rexman100]

You can also add that Anzalone looked/looks a lot better in Detroit than he ever looked in NO.

DA is the ultimate square peg/round hole strategist when it comes to aligning talent and system. Those guys go somewhere else and the new defensive staff find ways to accentuate the strengths of these guys, rather than force them to fit the already existing plan.

They always say it’s best to get rid of a player a year earlier than later.

 

[TribuneUK]

I'm saying we are an aging team that should have moved on from Davis and Jordan at the end of 2023. We tied ourselves to those players with back end money. We have lost Roach, Oynemata, Baun, and Ellis as front 7 players while regressing on defense. We will likely extend HB until falls off a cliff too.

So you're directly saying the team should have let Davis go at the end of 2023?

Bold move.

You're complaining that the team kept the all pro, team captain and leader who is being paid commensurate with that status?

His salary has next to nothing to do with this. As much as you want to make out that's the case.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Cap space is never the reason why the Saints can’t
re-sign good young players. Especially since Zack Baun is making less than Willie Gay Jr. in total value.
Saints FO have shown that they will create cap room for players’ salaries whenever necessary. What the FO thinks a player is worth isn’t the same as not being able to keep a player because of no cap space.

Lack of starter opportunity due to 2 good LBs hogging all of the starter snaps caused Baun to sign with Philly on a 1 year deal for a shot at Pete Werner salary or more. Baun would still be here if Davis or Werner underperformed in 2023.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm saying we are an aging team that should have moved on from Davis and Jordan at the end of 2023. We tied ourselves to those players with back end money. We have lost Roach, Oynemata, Baun, and Ellis as front 7 players while regressing on defense. We will likely extend HB until falls off a cliff too.

No doubt we should have moved on from Jordan, but Davis was still playing like one of the top MLBs in the NFL and he's still playing at a very high level so I can see why it would have been hard to move on from him. Can you imagine the outrage had they let Davis go and said that Baun or Ellis was going to be the starting MLB?

I mean I like adding young talent, but you also have to have some veteran guys around to establish the standard you want to set and Demario is really both establishing the standard in the locker room and doing it on the field.

 

[TXSaintfan1]

Who cares if he was the highest graded LB. And we all know the Dennis Allen misused him, let him go, etc.... Allen is gone, Baun is not on the team neither is Hendrickson, Ellis, and any other guy that Payton and Allen let go. No use in crying over spilled milk. Only thing to look forward to is any free agents the team can afford (HA!) and the draft. Build around one of the young guys, replace Olave because he's done. Just my 1 cent because inflation is a bee-otch