N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t a Saint Thread] (50 Viewers)

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Ok I've felt Michael Hodges was doing a good job as LB coach, but I would really like to know how Baun and Elliss could never be more than Special Teamers here and then turn into starters the second they step foot outside of New Orleans. It took comical amounts of injuries for either of them to see the field as actual Linebackers for the Saints, yet it seems pretty obvious the talent was there all along, what gives?
 
BreesusSaves said:
Ok I've felt Michael Hodges was doing a good job as LB coach, but I would really like to know how Baun and Elliss could never be more than Special Teamers here and then turn into starters the second they step foot outside of New Orleans. It took comical amounts of injuries for either of them to see the field as actual Linebackers for the Saints, yet it seems pretty obvious the talent was there all along, what gives?
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Dennis Allen. He doesn't try to fit his defense around the player's skill set. He wants to change the player to fit his defense. It's why we've seen so many square peg, round hole player's on defense. Player X did this in college, but the Saints are playing them here instead.
 
BreesusSaves said:
Ok I've felt Michael Hodges was doing a good job as LB coach, but I would really like to know how Baun and Elliss could never be more than Special Teamers here and then turn into starters the second they step foot outside of New Orleans. It took comical amounts of injuries for either of them to see the field as actual Linebackers for the Saints, yet it seems pretty obvious the talent was there all along, what gives?
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Demario Davis and Pete Werner were largely in Elliss and Baun’s way. They had a stronghold on LB snaps. It was impossible for Elliss and Baun to see the field as much as them while we only use 2 LBs most of the time.

Before this season, Davis and Werner have been very good and healthy to not get rotated out that much. Saints never significantly rotated LBs while having 2 every down LBs. FO should’ve eventually prepared for Davis’ age to show. But Baun didn’t want to wait for a starter job and a chance to earn a big contract while Davis has still been racking up All-Pro seasons. Neither Baun and Elliss rightfully couldn’t wait for Davis’ decline and/or for the Saints to move on.
 
St.RobE said:


Highest graded linebacker per PFF for 2 weeks in a row now.

Dennis Allen folks…
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This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.
 
SonOfNOLA said:
Demario Davis and Pete Werner were largely in Elliss and Baun’s way. They had a stronghold on LB snaps. It was impossible for Elliss and Baun to see the field as much as them while we only use 2 LBs most of the time.

Before this season, Davis and Werner have been very good and healthy to not get rotated out that much. Saints never significantly rotated LBs while having 2 every down LBs. FO should’ve eventually prepared for Davis’ age to show. But Baun didn’t want to wait for a starter job and a chance to earn a big contract while Davis has still been racking up All-Pro seasons. Neither Baun and Elliss rightfully couldn’t wait for Davis’ decline and/or for the Saints to move on.
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This is all correct, but because it doesn't take an opportunity to lay every bit of the blame at the feet of coaches and front office, it will be roundly discounted and ignored until the next 'Zack Baun did something' thread appears.
 
DA continually fielded top 10 if not top 5 defenses
Let’s not be blinded with DA hate that we lose perspective
(Similarly Sean was a good/great coach, but not a perfect one)

As to personnel, this kind of thing can happen often
Someone auditions for your garage band and plays a great guitar solo
But you already have a lead guitar so you make the new guy a rhythm guitarist
You hire them on talent but find you just can’t make it work
Doesn’t mean the original idea was wrong
 
OldTimeGamer1966 said:
This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.
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Talent evaluation is how Baun was drafted by the Saints. Have to give Saints scouts credit for identifying future starting LB talent in Baun and Elliss as later round draft picks. They weren’t immediate starters coming into the league as a pass rusher-turned-off ball LB and a former 7th round pick.

The problem is we already had 2 good-great LBs entrenched into the lineup when Baun and Elliss were drafted. Or by time they began to show development. Demario, Kwon, and Werner were always ahead of them. Elliss was on IR in his first 3 seasons. It took a while for Baun to develop into a good off-ball LB. He was average-below average in pass coverage and run defense during his first 2-3 seasons. They unfortunately got caught up in the numbers game in depth chart and starting LB salary priority. It wouldn’t have made sense to pay the 3rd LB the same as LB1 and LB2 when only two are on the field most of the time.
 
OldTimeGamer1966 said:
This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.
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I believe the draft investment in Davenport was why he remained with the team and let the guy picked in the 3rd round walk. That was then and this is now. At this point nothing can be done about that situation.

Mistakes happen. It’s ok to fail as long as you learn from your mistakes. Have the Saints learned anything from the recent past?
 
SonOfNOLA said:
Talent evaluation is how Baun was drafted by the Saints. Have to get Saints scouts credit for identifying future starting LB talent in Baun and Elliss as later round draft picks. They weren’t immediate starters coming into the league as a former 7th round pick (Elliss) and pass rusher-turned-off ball LB

The problem is we already had 2 good-great LBs entrenched into the lineup when they were drafted. Or by time they began to show development. It took a while for Baun to develop into a good off-ball LB. He was average-below average in pass coverage and run defense during his first 2-3 seasons.
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True
SAINT BIGAL said:
I believe the draft investment in Davenport was why he remained with the team and let the guy picked in the 3rd round walk. That was then and this is now. At this point nothing can be done about that situation.

Mistakes happen. It’s ok to fail as long as you learn from your mistakes. Have the Saints learned anything from the recent past?
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That's a good point and a shame at the same time. I hope they have learned. Good point.
 

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