N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t a Saint Thread] (46 Viewers)

[SonOfNOLA]

This is all correct, but because it doesn't take an opportunity to lay every bit of the blame at the feet of coaches and front office, it will be roundly discounted and ignored until the next 'Zack Baun did something' thread appears.

Hindsight is fun. But Zack Baun is excelling in a role that Demario Davis has exceptionally occupied for 7 years with the Saints. There wasn’t much future off ball snaps for Baun with 2 full time LBs ahead of him. He isn’t excelling as a full time pass rusher in Philly like we wanted him to be after 2023 but as the leader of Philly’s LB unit. Saints developed Baun into becoming a very good LB when he was an exclusive pass rusher coming out of Wisconsin.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Demario Davis and Pete Werner were largely in Elliss and Baun’s way. They had a stronghold on LB snaps. It was impossible for Elliss and Baun to see the field as much as them while we only use 2 LBs most of the time.

Before this season, Davis and Werner have been very good and healthy to not get rotated out that much. Saints never significantly rotated LBs while having 2 every down LBs. FO should’ve eventually prepared for Davis’ age to show. But Baun didn’t want to wait for a starter job and a chance to earn a big contract while Davis has still been racking up All-Pro seasons. Neither Baun and Elliss rightfully couldn’t wait for Davis’ decline and/or for the Saints to move on.

Very true. Just a shame how things worked out. Saints have been a good "farm team" for other teams

 

[St. Widge]

Hindsight is fun. But Zack Baun is excelling in a role that Demario Davis has exceptionally occupied for 7 years with the Saints. There wasn’t much future off ball snaps for Baun with 2 full time LBs ahead of him. He isn’t excelling as a full time pass rusher in Philly like we wanted him to be after 2023 but as the leader of Philly’s LB unit. Saints developed Baun into becoming a very good LB when he was an exclusive pass rusher coming out of Wisconsin.

Yep and now all the people who were complaining about the pick and complaining that the Saints tried to change his position instead of just letting him rush the passer are now complaining because he is playing well at the position the Saints moved him to and trained him to play.

Sucks that we lost him, but he wanted a shot to be a starter which he wasn't going to get here sitting behind Davis and Werner. Maybe the best move would have been to not sign Demario to an extension and let Baun start a couple years ago, but Baun probably was not have been ready at that point.

 

[TribuneUK]

Hindsight is fun. But Zack Baun is excelling in a role that Demario Davis has exceptionally occupied for 7 years with the Saints. There wasn’t much future off ball snaps for Baun with 2 full time LBs ahead of him. He isn’t excelling as a full time pass rusher in Philly like we wanted him to be after 2023 but as the leader of Philly’s LB unit. Saints developed Baun into becoming a very good LB when he was an exclusive pass rusher coming out of Wisconsin.

I think there's a reasonable debate that could be had as to whether the Saints should have let Demario go 'too early' in order to keep Baun, but I think the combination of play/leadership/cap impact of doing so probably settles that one.

 

[TribuneUK]

Sucks that we lost him, but he wanted a shot to be a starter which he wasn't going to get here sitting behind Davis and Werner. Maybe the best move would have been to not sign Demario to an extension and let Baun start a couple years ago, but Baun probably was not have been ready at that point.

Snap!

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Ellis and Baun both went to different teams and played Mike. The Mike in New Orleans has been Davis.

Lol, this isn’t an Allen or Loomis issue, it’s no one In their right mind was going to displace DD

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.

Besides T-Rex, Baun, and Elliss, name me one player the Saints developed and left and became starters elsewhere.

 

[RJS]

Ellis and Baun both went to different teams and played Mike. The Mike in New Orleans has been Davis.

Lol, this isn’t an Allen or Loomis issue, it’s no one In their right mind was going to displace DD

Can you imagine this place if Demario was tearing it up for the Eagles the last couple of years? Hopefully Hodges has made an impact with the multiple young linebackers we currently have on the roster.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Ok I've felt Michael Hodges was doing a good job as LB coach, but I would really like to know how Baun and Elliss could never be more than Special Teamers here and then turn into starters the second they step foot outside of New Orleans. It took comical amounts of injuries for either of them to see the field as actual Linebackers for the Saints, yet it seems pretty obvious the talent was there all along, what gives?

You can also add that Anzalone looked/looks a lot better in Detroit than he ever looked in NO.

DA is the ultimate square peg/round hole strategist when it comes to aligning talent and system. Those guys go somewhere else and the new defensive staff find ways to accentuate the strengths of these guys, rather than force them to fit the already existing plan.

 

[Saint Greg]

How much do we trust these grades? Do we only use them when they support our point of view? People seem to feel like Bresee is pretty good and they have a 36.8 grade on him this season. That's 120th out of 121 interior defensive linemen.

 

[St. Widge]

You can also add that Anzalone looked/looks a lot better in Detroit than he ever looked in NO.

DA is the ultimate square peg/round hole strategist when it comes to aligning talent and system. Those guys go somewhere else and the new defensive staff find ways to accentuate the strengths of these guys, rather than force them to fit the already existing plan.

Except Baun is playing exactly the role that the Saints trained Baun to play and he was a square peg when they moved him to Mike. I get that DA was a terrible head coach, but not everything he did was wrong. At least not when it came to defense. And, IIRC, Anzalone's big problem here was that he could not stay healthy. Kind of similar to T-Rex until his last year here.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Except Baun is playing exactly the role that the Saints trained Baun to play and he was a square peg when they moved him to Mike. I get that DA was a terrible head coach, but not everything he did was wrong. At least not when it came to defense. And, IIRC, Anzalone's big problem here was that he could not stay healthy. Kind of similar to T-Rex until his last year here.

Generally speaking, it appears Baun is good enough to develop and now play a central role on a winning team’s LB corps, but he’s not doing it for the Saints.

The Saints have bad LB depth this year and DA didn’t keep him around and instead signed Gay, an inferior player.

If the Saints are still a perennial contender and mostly stacking wins, nobody cares as much, but when you’re bottoming out and start seeing the good players you drafted, showing out for other teams in ways they never did for you, the association/assumption is made.

It’s like how we got Demario and Vilma from the Jets and they were a million times more productive for the Saints than in NYJ. We loved it because the Jets obviously have mostly sucked at developing and maintaining talent and have frequently had talented players leave and THEN take their game to the next level.

Essentially the Saints are the Jets now.

It might just be coincidence/bad luck, but it’s also what happens to bad franchises and I think that underlying concern leads to a lot of the fan complaints about the ones that got away.

 

[Merl]

This is one of the BIG problems the Saints have, and they have had it for a long time. They develop in house talent and then for some odd reason don't want to pay them. They would rather release them and then go waste money in free agency or keep the wrong players just like they did when they kept Davenport and let Hendrickson go to Cincinatti. They just are not good at player talent evaluation, and they better find a way to solve that problem.

It was not a decision between Davenport and Hendrickson. It was M. Williams and Hendrickson. Both were going to be free agents and neither would sign a deal Loomis could afford due to cap issues. With Williams being a safety his Franchise tag cost was much lower than the DE tag cost so he got the tag and Hendrickson moved on.

 

[TribuneUK]

I would like to ironically salute the posters resolutely ignoring the facts already presented and doubling down on their anti-DA rhetoric. Just excellent stuff.

 

[Saintcd]

DA continually fielded top 10 if not top 5 defenses
Let’s not be blinded with DA hate that we lose perspective
(Similarly Sean was a good/great coach, but not a perfect one)

As to personnel, this kind of thing can happen often
Someone auditions for your garage band and plays a great guitar solo
But you already have a lead guitar so you make the new guy a rhythm guitarist
You hire them on talent but find you just can’t make it work
Doesn’t mean the original idea was wrong

Top 10 first 58 min defenses.