N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB in Weeks 8-9 Baun wins DPOTW award [Eagles Baun Thread] (30 Viewers)

[Judge_Smails]

They always say it’s best to get rid of a player a year earlier than later.

~Mission Accomplished~

 

[Judge_Smails]

DA didn't decide not to sign Baun. Baun took about the same money we offered to go to the Eagles because he had a starting spot open there and he was going to be behind Davis and Werner here.

I think calling the Saints the Jets after losing a couple players and a few mediocre to bad seasons is an emotional overreaction.

The mistake made was choosing to continue to act like a contender and keep older players when they likely should have moved on from older players. That's what happened with Baun and Ellis.

Not being emotional, but OK. It’s a broad brush statement and was acknowledged with the post. However, the Saints have not been trending toward not being like the Jets for the last few years.

Getting rid of DA was a good step toward changing that. Doing a better job of drafting and keeping more of the right guys in the building will be important as well.

 

[solarbear88]

DA has a complicated scheme. Requiring multiple reads. Hard for younger players to step in. Baun never got to pin his ears back and go very often. And his in-game reps were very minimal.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

They always say it’s best to get rid of a player a year earlier than later.

I think Michael Thomas, Roby and Lattimore are examples of the Saints moving on when it’s time or earlier while they can. We lacked WR depth in the other half of the WR depth chart afterwards but didn’t further commit cap to a severely injury prone, former celebrated star receiver. Olave, Shaheed, and Taylor immediately emerged in a way that Baun didn’t yet as a complete player. Taylor stepped up so early that he caused the Saints to move on from 3 DBs overall including Gardner-Johnson.

Moving on from Davis while he’s coming off top 5 LB seasons was pretty much impossible. He’s still one of the best in the league and wasn’t missing games or declining compared to other vets we moved on from.

Moving on from an aging top player seems to vary by position. Pass rush and LB positions aren’t easily replaceable compared to WR and CB. In the Saints case, younger players emerge and outperform vets at the latter positions more often.

 

[meily]

A defensive coach who couldn't get the most out of Ellis or Baun?

 

[Bill]

Highest graded linebacker per PFF for 2 weeks in a row now.

Dennis Allen folks…

This just makes me sick.

 

[los226]

What a freaking waste of a third round draft pick to have this guy playing special teams and then for him to go to another team and ball out.

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

I wonder if there punting the can causes this. Could it be we’re locked into the aging vets due to dead money hits, and therefore cannot promote the younger guys?

That could very well be a contributing factor. Good point.

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

The bigger problem is the salary cap issues forcing us to keep aging veterans while letting young talent we developed walk.

The cap is finally got us in between a rock and a hard place. It is good to see they took a step in the right direction by trading Lattimore. Lattimore was getting paid a ton and was disgruntled to the point that the trade had to be made. I guess it will take a good two years to get it under control.

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

It was not a decision between Davenport and Hendrickson. It was M. Williams and Hendrickson. Both were going to be free agents and neither would sign a deal Loomis could afford due to cap issues. With Williams being a safety his Franchise tag cost was much lower than the DE tag cost so he got the tag and Hendrickson moved on.

You are right now I remember,thanks. Sad thing is we ended up losing both. Well all three actually.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

A defensive coach who couldn't get the most out of Ellis or Baun?

Elliss had 78 total tackles and 7 sacks, still career high, as the 3rd LB in his contract year with the Saints. The HC got the most out of him as a 7th round LB3 which led to a big contract with ATL.

Baun began to be utilized in the same way as Elliss in the second half of 2023 after the fact. But thats when Baun began to emerge into a good defensive player. LB talent stonewalled him in LB snaps in his first 3 Saints seasons because of where his development was at as a LB. Baun wasn’t producing like Philly Baun when he started some games at Mike and Will in place of injured Davis/Werner in ‘21-‘23.

Baun showed good pass rushing skills in 2023 more than sideline to sideline LB potential. He wasn’t pushing Werner for snaps in Base Defense. Judging by how high the Saints are on Werner, he would’ve been waiting forever for a starting opportunity.

 

[RJS]

If there's a complaint with the Saints and Baun, it's the use of resources. They used a 2020 and 2021 3rd round pick to trade up for him. Then the following year they used a 2nd round pick on Pete Werner. That's a lot of draft capital that could have been spread around at other positions.

 

[meily]

Elliss had 78 total tackles and 7 sacks, still career high, as the 3rd LB in his contract year with the Saints. The HC got the most out of him as a 7th round LB3 which led to a big contract with ATL.

Baun began to be utilized in the same way as Elliss in the second half of 2023 after the fact. But thats when Baun began to emerge into a good defensive player. LB talent stonewalled him in LB snaps in his first 3 Saints seasons because of where his development was at as a LB. Baun wasn’t producing like Philly Baun when he started some games at Mike and Will in place of injured Davis/Werner in ‘21-‘23.

Baun showed good pass rushing skills in 2023 more than sideline to sideline LB potential. He wasn’t pushing Werner for snaps in Base Defense. Judging by how high the Saints are on Werner, he would’ve been waiting forever for a starting opportunity.

I appreciate the synopsis, but you draft to tweener linebacker/rush ends into a defense that was not designed to their strengths, you would think they drafted these players with similar skills on purpose and you'd create a defense where they would be edge rushers and key contributors instead of square legs in your round hole defense.

Just like Jenkins, CGJ, Vonn were versatile safety nickle backs that defined the versatility of the defense, Ellis and Baun should of been the versatile rush ends that defined the versatility of the defense.

 

[Rouxble]

The bigger problem is the salary cap issues forcing us to keep aging veterans while letting young talent we developed walk.

The Football Outsiders Almanac from a few years back described our cap hell as one where we can’t retain mid tier UFA’s because we’re locked in on older veterans with tons of dead money.

Outside of Marcus Williams, none of the FA losses we’ve had were for top dollar contracts. All were very affordable, but the claim was always that the FO didn’t see the value in the player. The replacements that were allegedly a better value have almost always been a downgrade.

 

[Eeyore]

A kid who reminds me of Baun is Mikail Kamara from Indiana. Short, pass rushing, 3-4 linebacker who is very productive.