3-4 Adjsutments for Vitt? (1 Viewer)

[LSSpam]

How is it a success story when he is on another team? That just means he is terrible at recognizing the talent in front of him. He likes "character" over talent obviously. We steadily miss tackles and Dunbar was a sure tackler. Doesn't make sense to get rid of someone with a skillset we lack. I like Vitt as a mouthpiece but nothing more.

Vitt played Dunbar. Dunbar started here in New Orleans. Dunbar played for us in 2011. How does no one remember this? We were GOOD that year! Did none of you watch the Saints? DUNBAR STARTED.

I'm flabbergasted.

 

[Saint_Ward]

I think people missed my point when I said ask Vitt.

How do we know what he does or doesn't need to learn? How do we know if he's good at coaching LB's in a specific alignment?

He's been coaching football for about 30 years. He has to know something. Just because Payton is an offensive guy doesn't mean he doesn't know defense. I bet Drew Brees knows more about defensive alignments and responsibilities than most people on this board.

So, it's just a silly off season argument that no one here can actually answer. What merits do we even debate? The number of tackles the LB's have had? Splash plays? Just how we feel about the defense?

 

[la. champ1]

Exactly. I can tell from listening to him for 5 minutes that he UNDERSTANDS the game of football. And I also know that you don't get to the NFL without understanding the game, which is different than being a "one position specialist." Not a lot of those guys exist at the NFL level.

There is absolutely no grounds for calling Joe Vitt a "bad coach" or "bad LB coach". Because we havent' been satisfied with LB play under him?

Being a playmaker takes talent, not coaching. The things fans look for... that is the "uncoachable" stuff. I can tell Vitt is a good teacher and a good coach because regardless of the quality of his players, I see them playing assignment football. Again, last year the entire defense was horrible. I don't care if we'd have had Mike Singletary as our LB coach, the LBs would not have looked very good.

I understand fans complaining about players, even when I don't agree. I understand them complaining about coordinators or head coaches. But to start evaluating position coaches... that is a little too specific to casually pass judgment.

Agree. Vitt has coached in the NFL for a very long time and has had to coach in the 3-4 at least a few times. The linebacker play on our team is a product of players getting older(Jonathan Vilma/injuries), letting go of one or two guys we shouldn't have (jolun Dunbar), and just a lack of talent period.

 

[Get in the Carr]

Vitt played Dunbar. Dunbar started here in New Orleans. Dunbar played for us in 2011. How does no one remember this? We were GOOD that year! Did none of you watch the Saints? DUNBAR STARTED.

I'm flabbergasted.

Yes i remember he started a few games but "starting" didn't mean jack under GW. Just means you were on the game program. I wasn't even really referring to his playing time. You can't deny he did not get starter reps for much of his time there.

 

[LSSpam]

Yes i remember he started a few games but "starting" didn't mean jack under GW. Just means you were on the game program. I wasn't even really referring to his playing time. You can't deny he did not get starter reps for much of his time there.

Yeah I can.

I deny that he did not get starter reps in 2011.

See?

He played in 68% of the defensive snaps in 2011. Thats starter level snaps. You don't know what you're talking about, so why are you talking?

 

[Get in the Carr]

Yeah I can.

I deny that he did not get starter reps in 2011.

See?

He played in 68% of the defensive snaps in 2011. Thats starter level snaps. You don't know what you're talking about, so why are you talking?

I watched every game so forget your 68% figure which is skewed. The guy was not playing starter minutes at the strong side. I see you are back with your i'm right you're wrong attitude. How many of those snaps were filling in for Vilma at middle linebacker when he was injured? Come on stat man. Bring it.

Also, your statement that receiving 68% of the snaps is starter level snaps; that's subjective. How many were filling in for injury? Hoe many were fourth down? Are we counting special teams?

 

[insidejob]

I watched every game so forget your 68% figure which is skewed. The guy was not playing starter minutes at the string side. I see you are back with your i'm right you're wrong attitude. How many of those snaps were filling in for Vilma at middle linebacker when he was injured? Come on stat man. Bring it.

 

[Get in the Carr]

I'll help. He started 5 games for Vilma due to injury and played a little bit for Shanle who had a nagging shoulder injury. So let's just assume that whatever snaps he played were due to injury. At what point was Shanle benched for Dunbar(not due to injury)?

 

[BlackandGoldXLIV]

But usually if you've coached that long, particularly as a position coach, you know scheme/technique pretty well. What specifically are we implying that Joe Vitt won't understand???

I don't know why we act like the 3-4 is some kind of novelty or newfound revolution in the NFL. It's been around for a while. Defense isn't like offense. Knowing the 3-4 is not the same as understanding the intricacies of teaching the West Coast Offense.

Defense is defense. Linebacker is linebacker.

Also, we're really overly focusing on the switch from the 4-3 to the 3-4. I'll bring up, again, that GW ran plenty of 3-4. Moreover, he and Rob Ryan come from THE SAME COACHING TREE. If anything, Vitt spending 3 years under GW is going to have him familiarized with the terminology and philosophy of Rob Ryan's defense.

If we're trying to be coach evaluators here, I have no desire to participate in that conversation because it all comes down to opinions and what kind of mood each poster is in. If the question is whether or not Joe Vitt has had enough exposure to the 3-4 in general or Rob Ryan's version of the 3-4 to contribute as a coach, the answer is a very very very confident YES.

Like "Kill the Head" or "Affect the Body"?

 

[LSSpam]

I watched every game so forget your 68% figure which is skewed. The guy was not playing starter minutes at the strong side. I see you are back with your i'm right you're wrong attitude. How many of those snaps were filling in for Vilma at middle linebacker when he was injured? Come on stat man. Bring it.

Also, your statement that receiving 68% of the snaps is starter level snaps; that's subjective. How many were filling in for injury? Hoe many were fourth down? Are we counting special teams?

No, we're not counting special teams. No he wasn't playing the strong side. He filled in for Vilma at MLB early in the season and played WLB the rest of the season. Remember we moved Shanle to SLB in 2011? Dunbar is like 225. He wasn't going to be lining up in front of a tight end.


68% is starters minutes. That's what you'd expect for a linebacker who is on the field in most situations. It's not going to be 100% for anybody, and not even 90% for most players. Linebackers in particular get pulled off the field for defensive backs. 68% makes him a starting linebacker.

You can be mad about this all you want, but I hardly see how it's my fault that you're wrong

 

[LSSpam]

Actually I think I have that flipped. Shanle was back at WLB in 2011, and Dunbar started at SLB. But Shanle, Vilma, and Dunbar started in the same lineup together.

 

[Guitarzan]

Of all the defensive coaches and coordinators we have gone through, I think Vitt and Johnson are the only 2 that have been here since Sean got here. Is that right? In all that time we had -- arguably-- 1 good defensive unit.

I can't tell if it's talent or not. Our line has been average to below average. Our linebackers seem the same. Ninkovich and Dunbar were allowed to leave and have done well. Is there some better coaching needed to get the most out of Tez, Jordan, Hicks and Jr.?

Maybe old-school isn't getting through? I don't know, but with all that turnover, why are those two guys still coaching? I don't mean that to say we should have let them go. I'm just wondering: with all the turnover, what's the reason they stick around?

It's easy to say that's because Sean wants them. But what are their talents that Sean might see as to why they are still here?

I see interviews with other teams for our coaches that produce successful results.

I don't recall times when other teams have wanted to interview those two for a promotion.

Does anyone think that they might simply be ok coaches and that maybe through loyalty-- or at least predominately through loyalty-- that's why Sean hasn't replaced them?

I don't know.

It'll be interesting to see some of the better football experts opine on those queries.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Of all the defensive coaches and coordinators we have gone through, I think Vitt and Johnson are the only 2 that have been here since Sean got here. Is that right? In all that time we had -- arguably-- 1 good defensive unit.

I can't tell if it's talent or not. Our line has been average to below average. Our linebackers seem the same. Ninkovich and Dunbar were allowed to leave and have done well. Is there some better coaching needed to get the most out of Tez, Jordan, Hicks and Jr.?

Maybe old-school isn't getting through? I don't know, but with all that turnover, why are those two guys still coaching? I don't mean that to say we should have let them go. I'm just wondering: with all the turnover, what's the reason they stick around?

It's easy to say that's because Sean wants them. But what are their talents that Sean might see as to why they are still here?

I see interviews with other teams for our coaches that produce successful results.

I don't recall times when other teams have wanted to interview those two for a promotion.

Does anyone think that they might simply be ok coaches and that maybe through loyalty-- or at least predominately through loyalty-- that's why Sean hasn't replaced them?

I don't know.

It'll be interesting to see some of the better football experts opine on those queries.

Johnson came a few weeks before GW.

 

[Guitarzan]

Johnson came a few weeks before GW.

Thanks wasn't sure about him. Vitt since Day 1 though.