The problem of White Supremacy - Spinoff from Buffalo Shooting thread (3 Viewers)

Previous Next
And when there is any progress in diversity in any field there is often the predicable claims of ‘reverse racism’ and how hard it is now being a white (fill in the blank). And the field is now 88% white instead of 92%
===================
As James Patterson reflected on the state of the writing world today, the best-selling thriller novelist with an estimated net worth of more than $800 million lamented how one group in particular is having a hard time finding work: White men.


In fact, America’s richest author noted to the Sunday Times how White males — specifically older White males — are experiencing what he described as “another form of racism” when it came to trying to break through as writers in TV, film, theater or publishing.


“What’s that all about? Can you get a job? Yes. Is it harder? Yes,” Patterson, 75, told the British newspaper. “It’s even harder for older writers. You don’t meet many 52-year-old white males.”


Now, Patterson is facing backlash from critics and writers who say the author has blatantly ignored recent data showing how the publishing industry has been and remains “a business that is owned by White men.”

In a diversity self-audit from Penguin Random House, the publisher found that about 75 percent of the contributors during that period were White. Just 6 percent were Black, while 5 percent were Hispanic, the audit shows. The company also acknowledged that more than 74 percent of its employees were White.


A 2019 survey from children’s publisher Lee and Low Books found that 85 percent of the publishing staffers who acquire and edit books are White people.

A 2020 report from the New York Times found a similar result across the U.S. publishing industry, with 89 percent of the books written in 2018 being penned by White writers…..

But much of the attention from Patterson’s interview was on his claim that White men are struggling to find work in publishing.

Gina Denny, an associate editor at the publisher TouchPoint Press, noted that when USA Today reported on Patterson’s comments, just nine authors on the newspaper’s list of 150 bestsellers were non-White writers.

Three of Patterson’s titles made the list, while just five women of color and four men of color were on the bestseller list. The rest were made up of White men between the ages of 36 and 84, Denny said — and some of the White males on the list have long been dead.

“Dead white men are statistically as likely to be on the USA Today bestseller list as a person of color,” Denny wrote……

 
Last edited:
Optimus Prime said:
And when there is any progress in diversity in any field there is often the predicable claims of ‘reverse racism’ and how hard it is now being a white (fill in the blank)
===================
As James Patterson reflected on the state of the writing world today, the best-selling thriller novelist with an estimated net worth of more than $800 million lamented how one group in particular is having a hard time finding work: White men.


In fact, America’s richest author noted to the Sunday Times how White males — specifically older White males — are experiencing what he described as “another form of racism” when it came to trying to break through as writers in TV, film, theater or publishing.


“What’s that all about? Can you get a job? Yes. Is it harder? Yes,” Patterson, 75, told the British newspaper. “It’s even harder for older writers. You don’t meet many 52-year-old white males.”


Now, Patterson is facing backlash from critics and writers who say the author has blatantly ignored recent data showing how the publishing industry has been and remains “a business that is owned by White men.”

In a diversity self-audit from Penguin Random House, the publisher found that about 75 percent of the contributors during that period were White. Just 6 percent were Black, while 5 percent were Hispanic, the audit shows. The company also acknowledged that more than 74 percent of its employees were White.


A 2019 survey from children’s publisher Lee and Low Books found that 85 percent of the publishing staffers who acquire and edit books are White people.

A 2020 report from the New York Times found a similar result across the U.S. publishing industry, with 89 percent of the books written in 2018 being penned by White writers…..

But much of the attention from Patterson’s interview was on his claim that White men are struggling to find work in publishing.

Gina Denny, an associate editor at the publisher TouchPoint Press, noted that when USA Today reported on Patterson’s comments, just nine authors on the newspaper’s list of 150 bestsellers were non-White writers.

Three of Patterson’s titles made the list, while just five women of color and four men of color were on the bestseller list. The rest were made up of White men between the ages of 36 and 84, Denny said — and some of the White males on the list have long been dead.

“Dead white men are statistically as likely to be on the USA Today bestseller list as a person of color,” Denny wrote……

Click to expand...

reminds me of this piece from January - it's more focused on Hollywood than literary publishing but I think it describes a similar phenomenon.

Hollywood's New Rules

The old boys club is dead. But a new one—with its own litmus tests and landmines—is rapidly replacing it. 'This is all going to end in a giant class-action lawsuit.'
bariweiss.substack.com
 
Optimus Prime said:
And when there is any progress in diversity in any field there is often the predicable claims of ‘reverse racism’ and how hard it is now being a white (fill in the blank)
===================
As James Patterson reflected on the state of the writing world today, the best-selling thriller novelist with an estimated net worth of more than $800 million lamented how one group in particular is having a hard time finding work: White men.


In fact, America’s richest author noted to the Sunday Times how White males — specifically older White males — are experiencing what he described as “another form of racism” when it came to trying to break through as writers in TV, film, theater or publishing.


“What’s that all about? Can you get a job? Yes. Is it harder? Yes,” Patterson, 75, told the British newspaper. “It’s even harder for older writers. You don’t meet many 52-year-old white males.”


Now, Patterson is facing backlash from critics and writers who say the author has blatantly ignored recent data showing how the publishing industry has been and remains “a business that is owned by White men.”

In a diversity self-audit from Penguin Random House, the publisher found that about 75 percent of the contributors during that period were White. Just 6 percent were Black, while 5 percent were Hispanic, the audit shows. The company also acknowledged that more than 74 percent of its employees were White.


A 2019 survey from children’s publisher Lee and Low Books found that 85 percent of the publishing staffers who acquire and edit books are White people.

A 2020 report from the New York Times found a similar result across the U.S. publishing industry, with 89 percent of the books written in 2018 being penned by White writers…..

But much of the attention from Patterson’s interview was on his claim that White men are struggling to find work in publishing.

Gina Denny, an associate editor at the publisher TouchPoint Press, noted that when USA Today reported on Patterson’s comments, just nine authors on the newspaper’s list of 150 bestsellers were non-White writers.

Three of Patterson’s titles made the list, while just five women of color and four men of color were on the bestseller list. The rest were made up of White men between the ages of 36 and 84, Denny said — and some of the White males on the list have long been dead.

“Dead white men are statistically as likely to be on the USA Today bestseller list as a person of color,” Denny wrote……

Click to expand...
 
guidomerkinsrules said:
Click to expand...


I havent read his interview (paywalled) but when he talks about getting a "writing job" I'm not sure he means "novelist" - I think he's referring to TV writers or other professions inside the larger 'publishing' universe. Doesn't take away from the point about whose novels are getting published (or are popular) but I think these are different things.

He might be referring to things like the diversity quotas being put in by studios and entertainment companies for writers.

CBS announces diversity overhaul of writers rooms and script-development program

CBS will commit at least 25% of its development budget to projects with BIPOC creators and wants its writers rooms to be 40% nonwhite by the 2021-22 season.
www.latimes.com
 
Mr. Sparkle said:
reminds me of this piece from January - it's more focused on Hollywood than literary publishing but I think it describes a similar phenomenon.

Hollywood's New Rules

The old boys club is dead. But a new one—with its own litmus tests and landmines—is rapidly replacing it. 'This is all going to end in a giant class-action lawsuit.'
bariweiss.substack.com
Click to expand...

I'm not sure..... The Washington Post article notes Patterson's claim, but then provides some numbers that appear to show that Patterson's fear is unfounded. And barring any more information, it does sound like Patterson's complaint is without merit.

The substack article has lots of anecdotes and quotes from different members of Hollywood that provide more clarity on what individuals are experiencing, but it lacks statistics to see if there's a real problem there.... although if agents have explicit emails saying they can't hire a person b/c they are white or male, they do have EEOC claim (maybe, I'm not sure what the rules are for writers and such and the limits of EEOC), which I assume is what is meant by the possibility for a class action lawsuit.

I think stories explaining people's experiences are useful, but I think statistics would be needed to figure out the depth of an issue.
 
I will say that I have seen managers use the "I can't promote you b/c the position needs to go to a woman/BIPOC" line but as a cop out b/c they didn't want to give the guy a straight performance critique, b/c a lot of managers are chicken. It's super unhelpful. Every time I've seen that happen, I've encouraged the guy to file an EEOC complaint, even though I'm pretty sure that wasn't the reason they weren't picked... but if they were told that, it needs to stop.
 
FWIW here's Amazon's new policy for its studio projects:

Higher roles on productions like directors, writers, and producers under Amazon Studios will need to meet a minimum of 30 percent of women and people within a marginalized racial or ethnic group. That number will rise to 50 percent by 2024.

Casting an actor must match the identity of the character they will be playing. For example, if a character in a show or movie is gay, then the actor portraying this character will be gay. This encompasses gender, gender identity, nationality, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability. The project will have one character within one of the following communities: LGBT+, a person with a disability, and three regionally underrepresented race/ethnic/cultural groups. A single character can fill multiple of these identities.
Click to expand...

Amazon Studios Announces Racial And Gender Quotas

Amazon Studios is putting in place new policies that will make it so the company is meeting hiring goals regarding race and gender
www.giantfreakinrobot.com

Inclusive Experiences and Technology: Commitment to customers

From deliveries at the front door to satellites in space, Amazon drives inventive and accessible solutions that serve customers around the world. In everything we do, we start with our customers, building devices and services for our broad customer base.
dei.amazonstudios.com
 
UncleTrvlingJim said:
I will say that I have seen managers use the "I can't promote you b/c the position needs to go to a woman/BIPOC" line but as a cop out b/c they didn't want to give the guy a straight performance critique, b/c a lot of managers are chicken. It's super unhelpful. Every time I've seen that happen, I've encouraged the guy to file an EEOC complaint, even though I'm pretty sure that wasn't the reason they weren't picked... but if they were told that, it needs to stop.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I'd rather be told the actual reason than some made up reason. And if it's legitimately for diversity reasons, I'll be disappointed, but not mad.
 
Mr. Sparkle said:
FWIW here's Amazon's new policy for its studio projects:



Amazon Studios Announces Racial And Gender Quotas

Amazon Studios is putting in place new policies that will make it so the company is meeting hiring goals regarding race and gender
www.giantfreakinrobot.com

Inclusive Experiences and Technology: Commitment to customers

From deliveries at the front door to satellites in space, Amazon drives inventive and accessible solutions that serve customers around the world. In everything we do, we start with our customers, building devices and services for our broad customer base.
dei.amazonstudios.com
Click to expand...

If they turn out good stories, then it's fine, and if they don't they'll lose money.

From an overall policy standpoint, I think trying to mandate specific mixes in each project is not a great approach. I do think trying to hire more content creators of diverse backgrounds is both desirable financially and ethically. But I think forcing story tellers to have a specific mix will potentially create fewer good stories. I think it's more useful to look at all the content being produced in sum and determining if they are providing a reasonable representation of the population.
 
DaveXA said:
Agreed, I'd rather be told the actual reason than some made up reason. And if it's legitimately for diversity reasons, I'll be disappointed, but not mad.
Click to expand...

So, I'd say if a promotion or hire was done purely for diversity reasons, it's not only a wrong decision but probably also illegal. By that, I mean if you hire someone who is clearly an unqualified candidate who is minority when you had clearly qualified white/male candidate also apply.

That also rarely happens in my experience. The pipeline for new minorities candidates is getting stronger and I rarely see any unqualified candidate get hired just to fill a diversity quota. Then it just becomes a subjective matter - if you have two candidates who are qualified, then hiring the minority as the tie breaker is legal and appropriate particularly if your overall mix in you org is not particularly diverse.
 
Amazon is a world leader on diversity; they are also a private company making a business decision so it isn’t anything about EEOC.

There is no rule that says you have to hire a protected class for a specific job, only that you have a specific % at certain levels.

The root cause for being in a position of having to hire a POC isn’t because of the rules. It’s because your company has done a piss poor job of evaluating and hiring candidates for positions for years. You hire the same demographic; you have the same perspective. Then you get industry blinders to emerging markets. Then you are a dinosaur and you die.
 
UncleTrvlingJim said:
So, I'd say if a promotion or hire was done purely for diversity reasons, it's not only a wrong decision but probably also illegal. By that, I mean if you hire someone who is clearly an unqualified candidate who is minority when you had clearly qualified white/male candidate also apply.

That also rarely happens in my experience. The pipeline for new minorities candidates is getting stronger and I rarely see any unqualified candidate get hired just to fill a diversity quota. Then it just becomes a subjective matter - if you have two candidates who are qualified, then hiring the minority as the tie breaker is legal and appropriate particularly if your overall mix in you org is not particularly diverse.
Click to expand...
Right, I'm at the point of assuming the person promoted ahead of me would be qualified. At least I'd hope that's the case. If we're equally qualified or very close to it, no issues.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Previous Next

Users who are viewing this thread

    Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)

    Share this page

    Twitter

    Back
    Top Bottom