Bill Vinovich calling his first Saints game tonight since the no-call (Merged) (1 Viewer)

[Bill]

I get the argument that Vinovich wasn't the primary villain here, but how often do you see a discussion of the Refs after a play, and a flag comes flying out? It's VERY rare, but Vinovich could have taken a peek at one of the big screens and tossed a flag. I know review wasn't allowed in that situation, but they could have easily had a quick "discussion" with one eye on a big screen. That crew is forever tainted in my view!

‘Taking a peek’ at the video screens would have been the same as making a judgment by means of a video review. That was not in the rule book at the time of that scenario. For the officials to make any decision about that play by staring up to the screen would have been breaking the rules that were in place at that time. At least give them credit for not bending the rules.

Literally the only thing that Vinovich could have done in a group huddle with the other officials is to ask, ‘Are you sure that it was a bang-bang play and should not be considered pass interference?’

Since a highly graded senior official made the call, it would have been unlikely that anyone would have strongly challenged his decision.

 

[Bill]

I agree totally with HouseCall. The no-call was horrendous. But Vinovich didn't see what happened. And he is one of the best referees in the game.

And I have little patience for those who maintain the no-call was part of a league conspiracy to send Los Angeles to the Super Bowl. If so, you would think the officials might have made a few bad calls against the Saints in the first 58 minutes of the game.

And for those who don't remember, in an overtime game the Saints were flagged three times for 20 yards whereas the Rams were hit with seven penalties for 64 yards. If the league were rigging the officiating to favor Los Angeles, I would expect more than three penalties against the Saints. That crew was letting them play, which is what often happens in a championship game. For the first 58 minutes, I thought the officiating was superb. With the no-call, two officials decided they did not want to make a call that would decide a championship game, even though the violation was so egregious I saw it sitting in the upper box end zone on the other side of the field.

Their decision was terrible. But it was not the product of a conspiracy that would have warranted action by a federal grand jury and would have been the biggest scandal in the history of American sports that would have sent people to prison and would have decimated the market value of the 32 NFL franchises.

How dare you use your brain and choose to think with a clear, reasoning head!!!

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

As Bill said above, a problem was that it was not a regular crew where the crew members had worked together and knew one another. I don't remember what communication, if any, the crew had after the play, and I agree with the argument that Vinovich should have assembled his crew to at least discuss what happened. But Cavaletto was the responsible official who dramatically waved off the other official who wanted to throw his flag. When did Cavaletto retire? The league should have taken some punitive action as to Cavaletto. But Vinovich is one of the best in the league.

And the Saints had three chances to win the game after the no-call. We could have stopped the Rams in the last two minutes, we could have scored in overtime, and we could have stopped the Rams after the interception in overtime. In November, the 2018 Saints team was the best in football, but at the end of the season the injuries were taking their toll.

Our 2017 team could have won the Super Bowl. We were peaking at the right time. We could have beaten Philadelphia in the NFL championship and New England in the Super Bowl.

Finally, the NFL horribly handled the no-call. The league should have admitted that the call was wrong and could have said that officiating errors do occur and minutes of football were played after the no-call.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I’m one that believes the league is not on the level, but in this case I don’t think it was a scripted no call.

Here’s the conclusion I’ve come to:

I do think that that late in the game the crew was be more frugal with the flag as to not have the game decided by them. That hesitancy to throw a flag started a an unfortunate chain of events. The side judge should have thrown the flag immediately but hesitated, and Sean Payton comes flying up the sidelines. Another ref runs toward the side judge and Payton signaling Payton to stop. The side judge thinks the more senior ref is motioning for him not to pull the flag as he started to. The senior ref continues to try and corral Payton and the flag never gets thrown. By that time the crew was pot-committed to the ineptitude of Boeing the call.

I’m not excusing the clowns, as there should have been several flags raining down on such blatant infractions (pass interference and unnecessary roughness). But in an effort to be too cautious, a perfect storm of suck ensued. And of course, no method to correct such a blatant screw up after the fact.

 

[Bill]

I’m one that believes the league is not on the level, but in this case I don’t think it was a scripted no call.

Here’s the conclusion I’ve come to:

I do think that that late in the game the crew was be more frugal with the flag as to not have the game decided by them. That hesitancy to throw a flag started a an unfortunate chain of events. The side judge should have thrown the flag immediately but hesitated, and Sean Payton comes flying up the sidelines. Another ref runs toward the side judge and Payton signaling Payton to stop. The side judge thinks the more senior ref is motioning for him not to pull the flag as he started to. The senior ref continues to try and corral Payton and the flag never gets thrown. By that time the crew was pot-committed to the ineptitude of Boeing the call.

I’m not excusing the clowns, as there should have been several flags raining down on such blatant infractions (pass interference and unnecessary roughness). But in an effort to be too cautious, a perfect storm of suck ensued. And of course, no method to correct such a blatant screw up after the fact.

Very plausible indeed. But the fans are still ostracizing the wrong official. If Vinovich was even remotely derelict in his duties (within the rules at the time), I would be the first to point the finger at him.

The fans need to judge according to the realities of the situation… not according to the popular ‘conspiracy of the day’.

 

[SWAMP_THING]

Bill proved me right to my crazy uncle...lol...told ya ahhhhh, still tho, why is Bill still expected to call an honest game....yet there he is...

 

[saintfan1972]

I get the argument that Vinovich wasn't the primary villain here, but how often do you see a discussion of the Refs after a play, and a flag comes flying out? It's VERY rare, but Vinovich could have taken a peek at one of the big screens and tossed a flag. I know review wasn't allowed in that situation, but they could have easily had a quick "discussion" with one eye on a big screen. That crew is forever tainted in my view!

Was it the worst call ever? For sure. But this misguided thought you have would and will never happen. Vinovich is not the villain and I will never have any problem with him. The white hat will not ever throw a PI flag. Not his call. Won't happen, never will.

 

[dvdman]

I get the argument that Vinovich wasn't the primary villain here, but how often do you see a discussion of the Refs after a play, and a flag comes flying out? It's VERY rare, but Vinovich could have taken a peek at one of the big screens and tossed a flag. I know review wasn't allowed in that situation, but they could have easily had a quick "discussion" with one eye on a big screen. That crew is forever tainted in my view!

Exactly!!!!!!

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Very plausible indeed. But the fans are still ostracizing the wrong official. If Vinovich was even remotely derelict in his duties (within the rules at the time), I would be the first to point the finger at him.

The fans need to judge according to the realities of the situation… not according to the popular ‘conspiracy of the day’.

Well, if I remember correctly, he said he didn’t see the play. It was not his call, but there are camera angles showing watching the play from the backfield. He was far away, but had the perfect side angle that showed the hit and the ball behind the hit happening.

So, he did see the play and it was obvious to 72K+ spectators in real time (I was one of them). Vinovich may be getting too much of the blame, but this head official lied and is not exempt from blame.

 

[Bill]

Well, if I remember correctly, he said he didn’t see the play. It was not his call, but there are camera angles showing watching the play from the backfield. He was far away, but had the perfect side angle that showed the hit and the ball behind the hit happening.

So, he did see the play and it was obvious to 72K+ spectators in real time (I was one of them). Vinovich may be getting too much of the blame, but this head official lied and is not exempt from blame.

I’ve seen every video and photo angle that shows Vinovich during that play, and his view was not a perfect one. He was located more behind the pass (about a 37 degree angle) than at a ‘perfect’ 90 degree angle to the path of the pass. He didn’t have the best view of the interference than at least two other officials.

But one thing you will never see in any NFL game is the head official calling pass interference penalties. His focus is on a different part of the field. And while photos and video evidence proves that Vinovich was looking toward the area where the contact was made, he would not have been watching the action as one who would have to make the final judgment of that contact. It just wasn’t his place to do so.

By saying he didn’t see the play was his way of acknowledging that it wasn’t his call to make. Vinovich followed the proper protocol as the head official. Cavaletto made the call and adamantly stood by his call when another official tried to challenge his call. He even threatened Sean Payton for attempting to persuade the side judge who initially saw it the same as Sean did.

The real villain should be clear to anyone who looks at those fateful moments objectively.

 

[saintfan1972]

Well, if I remember correctly, he said he didn’t see the play. It was not his call, but there are camera angles showing watching the play from the backfield. He was far away, but had the perfect side angle that showed the hit and the ball behind the hit happening.

So, he did see the play and it was obvious to 72K+ spectators in real time (I was one of them). Vinovich may be getting too much of the blame, but this head official lied and is not exempt from blame.

I challenge everyone that's never called a football game to go sign up for their local high school area to call games. I did it for 8 years. You will learn from wherever you work on the field to call YOUR calls. I don't give a rats arse what Vinovich seen or didn't, he won't make a PI call. I was an umpire in the middle of the field in HS football. I saw some plays that looked like PI from my perspective. But guess what, it wasn't my call to make. So I didn't. So I challenge ALL who thinks they know what should happen, sign up, pick up a rule book, learn the game from the ref aspect, and see how it goes. You will get a different perspective. And oh by the way, throw a flag that's not YOURS to throw, and let me know how long you make it.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I challenge everyone that's never called a football game to go sign up for their local high school area to call games. I did it for 8 years. You will learn from wherever you work on the field to call YOUR calls. I don't give a rats arse what Vinovich seen or didn't, he won't make a PI call. I was an umpire in the middle of the field in HS football. I saw some plays that looked like PI from my perspective. But guess what, it wasn't my call to make. So I didn't. So I challenge ALL who thinks they know what should happen, sign up, pick up a rule book, learn the game from the ref aspect, and see how it goes. You will get a different perspective. And oh by the way, throw a flag that's not YOURS to throw, and let me know how long you make it.

Appreciate your perspective, although a bit salty. I don’t believe I ever said he should make the call. He said he didn’t see it. He did. I question why he denied it.

 

[saintfan1972]

Appreciate your perspective, although a bit salty. I don’t believe I ever said he should make the call. He said he didn’t see it. He did. I question why he denied it.

Been a lot of salty people on here for 6 years rambling the same thing. It's like Bill said, be mad at the right people. That is all.

 

[Day1]

Cavaletto is now retired. Just the same, I hope his oblate spheroids fall off.