Bill Vinovich calling his first Saints game tonight since the no-call (Merged) (1 Viewer)

[ilvdsnts]

I challenge everyone that's never called a football game to go sign up for their local high school area to call games. I did it for 8 years. You will learn from wherever you work on the field to call YOUR calls. I don't give a rats arse what Vinovich seen or didn't, he won't make a PI call. I was an umpire in the middle of the field in HS football. I saw some plays that looked like PI from my perspective. But guess what, it wasn't my call to make. So I didn't. So I challenge ALL who thinks they know what should happen, sign up, pick up a rule book, learn the game from the ref aspect, and see how it goes. You will get a different perspective. And oh by the way, throw a flag that's not YOURS to throw, and let me know how long you make it.

LA high school sports needs refs

There are times when high school football games and other athletic events have to be moved to Thursday night due to a shortage of officials.

www.audacy.com

 

[FlySaint]

No sympathy for him, no forgiveness…

 

[Alan12]

Like typical mob mentality, most fans just jumped on the “Hate Vinovich” bandwagon. But their anger is very misplaced since the fault was actually on Cavaletto. At the time there was no rule in place to review pass interference calls. Vinovich was not in the best position on the field to make the right call. And the official who was in the right position (and tried to flag the violation) was called off by the senior official Cavaletto.

There’s no doubt that communication was an issue with that crew. And it was at least partly due to not being a regular crew that had worked together throughout the season. Instead they were assembled as a crew based on league grading and seniority. No one wanted to challenge another official’s judgment. It was a recipe for disastrous misjudgment that led most Saints fans to hating the head official and the league itself.

Agree with most of the first paragraph. It always was and always has been Cavaletto as the main culprit; however Vinovich and Turner both bear the same amount of blame for different reasons. Vinovich because he wasn't on the same page with or in control of his crew as the head official and Turner for being spineless and folding like a cheap suit when challenged by Cavaletto who essentially told him what he (and everyone else with a functioning brain) saw occur on that play was wrong and only Cavaletto saw the correct thing.

The bolded portion is something I always seen repeated across this board and others in reference to playoff officiating and it's typically correct more often than not. It's an easy excuse, however regarding this particular game, these officials were more than familiar with each other and the way they officiate games because it wasn't the first time they officiated together.

Of that crew:

• 3 of the 7 worked on the same crew together that whole season: Vinovich (referee), Stritesky (umpire), and Cavaletto (side judge)
• 2 others, Turner (down judge) and Prukop (back judge) both worked the whole season together on Corrente's crew
• the 2 remaining officials, Baynes (line judge) and Hill (field judge) were the only ones from a crew other than Vinovich's or Corrente's; Bayne from Boger's crew and Hill from Hochuli's crew

However a mere 2 weeks before that NFC Championship, Vinovich, Stritesky, and Baynes all officiated the Colts-Texans Wild Card game together and the next day, Turner, Cavaletto, and Hill all called the Chargers-Ravens Wild Card game together. So 6 of the 7 officials had worked together that season before 1/20/2019 with as recently as 2 weeks earlier, including the 2 officials at the forefront of the controversial play.

In that aforementioned Chargers-Ravens game, Cavaletto had a blown call on a potential Ravens' TD to Crabtree that had to be overturned by review and and here's the kicker...

With 1:43 left in the game with the Chargers up by 6, the ever stoic Patrick Turner valiantly threw a flag for a blatant offensive holding against the Chargers' Russell Okung on a Melvin Gordon 9-yd run that would've converted a 3rd & 6 and all but iced the game for them considering the Ravens had 0 timeouts remaining. No one dared challenge his infallible eagle eyes that day and nothing could prevent him from unholstering his flag and launching it into orbit as it helped the Ravens get the ball back for one last drive with a chance to win it in front of their home crowd.

A dreaded shame he entirely lost his vision, gall, and his better judgement simultaneously two weeks later with 1:45 left in our game.

When did Cavaletto retire? The league should have taken some punitive action as to Cavaletto.

After the 2021 season.

Rich Hall and Gary Cavaletto retire, bringing on-field zebra departure to 9

Two more veteran officials have retired from the NFL.

www.footballzebras.com

And I'm sure he got a fabulous retirement package from the League in appreciation of his service.

Well, if I remember correctly, he said he didn’t see the play. It was not his call, but there are camera angles showing watching the play from the backfield. He was far away, but had the perfect side angle that showed the hit and the ball behind the hit happening.

So, he did see the play and it was obvious to 72K+ spectators in real time (I was one of them). Vinovich may be getting too much of the blame, but this head official lied and is not exempt from blame.

Agreed. That's my main complaint with Vinovich, he lied about not seeing it when one of the network cameras on the sideline clearly show him looking in that direction despite that not being where his area of focus is on a pass play. Not only lied about it, but went out of his way to lie about it before he was ever even prompted if he saw what transpired.

Pool report with referee Bill Vinovich​

Q: What was the reason that there was no penalty flag called on the Drew Brees pass to Tommylee Lewis?
Bill Vinovich: It was a judgment call by the covering official. I personally have not seen the play.

Q: Did the timing in the game have any impact on the no-call there?
Vinovich: Absolutely not.

Q: In this situation, is the play subject to an instant replay review?
Vinovich: It is not a reviewable play.

He could've just left it at it being a "judgement call by the covering official". Why immediately mention that unless you know the next question is likely, "Did you see the contact in question and/or did you think it constituted a flag" where he would've had to make an even more brazen lie.

Like you said, I understand pass interference isn't Vinovich's call to make as the referee, but as the head official, he "oversees everything related to the officials" and is to be "the final authority on disputed rulings".

He should've recognized there was a disputed ruling between Turner and Cavaletto (considering Cavaletto walked 10 yards over into Turner's vicinity) and conferred with both of them asking what each saw. He instead did nothing and allowed one of his senior officials to bully another official (who was closer to the spot of the foul than Cavaletto was) out of making the correct call and claiming ignorance to the situation by lying about not seeing. That raises a big stink to me.

Going back to the "final authority on disputed rulings" tidbit, had Turner not wilted to Cavaletto's pressure and maintained there was an infraction, then what? Vinovich "didn't see" the play allegedly. How can he be the final authority on a play he didn't see and his officials have different opinions on? Would he side with his senior official? Or the official that was closer to the play?

The sad thing about it all, even though Turner was closer to the play than Cavaletto and had the right call, Cavaletto actually did have a better view of the contact in relation to where the ball was than Turner did and not only did he purposefully refuse to make the correct call, he arrogantly waved off Turner and intimidated him from making the correct call. We all recognize this view as being cut-and-dry evidence that it was pass interference:

What a lot of people don't realize is the cameraman of this shot (wearing the red NFL Television vest kneeling down in the video below) is literally standing RIGHT BEHIND Cavaletto on this play so this is more or less almost the EXACT same angle Cavaletto saw the play from, albeit a step or so to the right. From Cavaletto's view a step to the left he without a doubt saw how much space there was between the contact and the ball arriving and knew it was WAY early.

When the broadcast switches to this view, you can see Cavaletto's right pant leg enter the left side of the frame. He saw.



Pitiful.

 

[saints4eva]

Agree with most of the first paragraph. It always was and always has been Cavaletto as the main culprit; however Vinovich and Turner both bear the same amount of blame for different reasons. Vinovich because he wasn't on the same page with or in control of his crew as the head official and Turner for being spineless and folding like a cheap suit when challenged by Cavaletto who essentially told him what he (and everyone else with a functioning brain) saw occur on that play was wrong and only Cavaletto saw the correct thing.

The bolded portion is something I always seen repeated across this board and others in reference to playoff officiating and it's typically correct more often than not. It's an easy excuse, however regarding this particular game, these officials were more than familiar with each other and the way they officiate games because it wasn't the first time they officiated together.

Of that crew:

• 3 of the 7 worked on the same crew together that whole season: Vinovich (referee), Stritesky (umpire), and Cavaletto (side judge)
• 2 others, Turner (down judge) and Prukop (back judge) both worked the whole season together on Corrente's crew
• the 2 remaining officials, Baynes (line judge) and Hill (field judge) were the only ones from a crew other than Vinovich's or Corrente's; Bayne from Boger's crew and Hill from Hochuli's crew

However a mere 2 weeks before that NFC Championship, Vinovich, Stritesky, and Baynes all officiated the Colts-Texans Wild Card game together and the next day, Turner, Cavaletto, and Hill all called the Chargers-Ravens Wild Card game together. So 6 of the 7 officials had worked together that season before 1/20/2019 with as recently as 2 weeks earlier, including the 2 officials at the forefront of the controversial play.

In that aforementioned Chargers-Ravens game, Cavaletto had a blown call on a potential Ravens' TD to Crabtree that had to be overturned by review and and here's the kicker...

With 1:43 left in the game with the Chargers up by 6, the ever stoic Patrick Turner valiantly threw a flag for a blatant offensive holding against the Chargers' Russell Okung on a Melvin Gordon 9-yd run that would've converted a 3rd & 6 and all but iced the game for them considering the Ravens had 0 timeouts remaining. No one dared challenge his infallible eagle eyes that day and nothing could prevent him from unholstering his flag and launching it into orbit as it helped the Ravens get the ball back for one last drive with a chance to win it in front of their home crowd.

A dreaded shame he entirely lost his vision, gall, and his better judgement simultaneously two weeks later with 1:45 left in our game.

After the 2021 season.

Rich Hall and Gary Cavaletto retire, bringing on-field zebra departure to 9

Two more veteran officials have retired from the NFL.

www.footballzebras.com

And I'm sure he got a fabulous retirement package from the League in appreciation of his service.

Agreed. That's my main complaint with Vinovich, he lied about not seeing it when one of the network cameras on the sideline clearly show him looking in that direction despite that not being where his area of focus is on a pass play. Not only lied about it, but went out of his way to lie about it before he was ever even prompted if he saw what transpired.


He could've just left it at it being a "judgement call by the covering official". Why immediately mention that unless you know the next question is likely, "Did you see the contact in question and/or did you think it constituted a flag" where he would've had to make an even more brazen lie.

Like you said, I understand pass interference isn't Vinovich's call to make as the referee, but as the head official, he "oversees everything related to the officials" and is to be "the final authority on disputed rulings".

He should've recognized there was a disputed ruling between Turner and Cavaletto (considering Cavaletto walked 10 yards over into Turner's vicinity) and conferred with both of them asking what each saw. He instead did nothing and allowed one of his senior officials to bully another official (who was closer to the spot of the foul than Cavaletto was) out of making the correct call and claiming ignorance to the situation by lying about not seeing. That raises a big stink to me.

Going back to the "final authority on disputed rulings" tidbit, had Turner not wilted to Cavaletto's pressure and maintained there was an infraction, then what? Vinovich "didn't see" the play allegedly. How can he be the final authority on a play he didn't see and his officials have different opinions on? Would he side with his senior official? Or the official that was closer to the play?

The sad thing about it all, even though Turner was closer to the play than Cavaletto and had the right call, Cavaletto actually did have a better view of the contact in relation to where the ball was than Turner did and not only did he purposefully refuse to make the correct call, he arrogantly waved off Turner and intimidated him from making the correct call. We all recognize this view as being cut-and-dry evidence that it was pass interference:

What a lot of people don't realize is the cameraman of this shot (wearing the red NFL Television vest kneeling down in the video below) is literally standing RIGHT BEHIND Cavaletto on this play so this is more or less almost the EXACT same angle Cavaletto saw the play from, albeit a step or so to the right. From Cavaletto's view a step to the left he without a doubt saw how much space there was between the contact and the ball arriving and knew it was WAY early.

When the broadcast switches to this view, you can see Cavaletto's right pant leg enter the left side of the frame. He saw.



Pitiful.

Thank you Alan12. That's the most thorough, well-written and informative commentary I've ever seen on the subject. Very well done indeed.

 

[ilvdsnts]

LA high school sports needs refs

There are times when high school football games and other athletic events have to be moved to Thursday night due to a shortage of officials.

www.audacy.com

I would also encourage anyone who really likes sports to officiate the sport you like. There is a shortage and especially a shortage of a younger generation. As the current generation of officials retire, there isn’t replacements being trained in their place. And ladies, that includes you. If you like football, the culture has changed, you have just as much chance if not more of a chance to advance than the men.

 

[2009ring]

There was absolutely no excuse for an officiating mistake of this magnitude on a stage this big. None. For all the holding and roughing calls that Mahomes, Brady, and Peyton get/got, how in the name of the almighty can no one have thrown a flag on that. It's incomprehensible. Every ref on that crew should have been fired and let God sort them out.

 

[saintfan1972]

I would also encourage anyone who really likes sports to officiate the sport you like. There is a shortage and especially a shortage of a younger generation. As the current generation of officials retire, there isn’t replacements being trained in their place. And ladies, that includes you. If you like football, the culture has changed, you have just as much chance if not more of a chance to advance than the men.

Right on. Even though I've moved on from football, I now call baseball, which I enjoy more. A lot of people like to complain, but won't put their time into doing it once their kids are through playing. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution. I've been called everything under the sun. I just pray to Jesus to keep a hand over my mouth, which He does. I just ignore people. So get out and try it.