Still feels odd to me that we have opened up so much cap space (25 Viewers)

[SouthRider]

Think about this - before the restructure we either had to play him or do a post June 1 cut - for cap reasons. If we did either of those we would have had NO money for free agency. Re-structuring him gave us money for free agency.

What I don't know is how the restructure affects a post June 1 cut? If we found another QB could we still cut him after June 1 and NOT be in cap hell? Maybe a scenario like THIS is still on the table.....

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Does anyone know what our expected over/under cap number for 2026 is after all these restructures and signings? OverTheCap hasn't updated.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm not up to date on penalties for holding out, but does it matter that the vast majority of his compensation for 2025 is roster bonus so he would not forfeit it if he did hold out? I'm curious what leverage he would have, if any, should he really want out that bad. I do agree with your take though. I think he would rather move on, but wouldn't refuse to play. He will be professional.

Yeah, Carr is a Pro. He's going to honor his contract.

I'm not sure how a hold out would work with the roster bonus and his salary being converted to a bonus. I would think the roster bonus would still have to be paid since it was a bonus for being on the roster on a specific date, which he will be, and I think even the converted salary would have to be paid since the conversion made it guaranteed money just like a signing bonus. But I could be wrong and it's possible there is a clause in the contract that says the guaranteed money is no longer guaranteed if he holds out? We Better Call Saul.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

To me if feels like ML will never commit to a full rebuild, unless it’s mandatory to do so. This would’ve been a good opportunity, but I also feel like he most likely made some promises to KM about being competitive. A part of me is ok with a rebuild for obvious reasons to start anew, but the other part feels like we can still make some waves in this division that will welcome a new team as the champion of the division.

Promises don't have to be made in collaborative efforts. It's more likely they both agreed that the roster could compete for a division title and a big component of that would be the QB that you couldn't win without in 2024

Caleb Williams , Trevor Lawrence and Drake Maye have all made public comments about working with their new head coach. It probably means nothing, but the radio silence seems a little odd.

The posturing on both sides has been weird going back to before Moore was hired. Carr's unsolicited comments on a pay cut, followed immediately with stories on how much the organization likes Rattler...it's just different. Again, probably meaningless.

Where there's smoke there's fire. FWIW Carr didn't speak on Klint being hired as OC until off-season workouts started so that's not abnormal. However, I also think it's clear that the relationship between Carr/Saints is transactional at this point. He's here because he's being paid, and the Saints are keeping him because he's currently their best option to meet their goal.

This relationship is on a fast track for things to end for Carr just like it ended for the Raiders. W/ him being benched if the season goes belly up midway through and then cut and or traded in 2026.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Think about this - before the restructure we either had to play him or do a post June 1 cut - for cap reasons. If we did either of those we would have had NO money for free agency. Re-structuring him gave us money for free agency.

What I don't know is how the restructure affects a post June 1 cut? If we found another QB could we still cut him after June 1 and NOT be in cap hell? Maybe a scenario like THIS is still on the table.....

No. I mean, could we? Yes. But it wouldn't make any logical sense. Anyone we get isn't going to be as ready to start as Carr, even if we drafted Ward. What makes the most sense is keeping him on the team this year, starting or warming the bench, and post June 1st cut next year.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Caleb Williams , Trevor Lawrence and Drake Maye have all made public comments about working with their new head coach. It probably means nothing, but the radio silence seems a little odd.

The posturing on both sides has been weird going back to before Moore was hired. Carr's unsolicited comments on a pay cut, followed immediately with stories on how much the organization likes Rattler...it's just different. Again, probably meaningless.

I'm pretty sure it was solicited, he was asked by a reporter about his willingness to take a pay cut. He didn't just come out and just bring it up himself.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm pretty sure it was solicited, he was asked by a reporter about his willingness to take a pay cut. He didn't just come out and just bring it up himself.

Nope. He volunteered that he would not take a pay cut without even being asked about it. Kat Terrell reported it.

 

[texasjefe]

Geezy, how much cap space are you referring to?

OTC has Carr's adjustment factored in and others, not all. If you click on the player in OTC, you can see what their current contract year is and free agency year.

The restructures were done for many reasons...

Get aging players resolved for exit strategy (when/what years they'll pay off the dead caps), and, to improve some of those contracts so when the offload year comes, the Saints can get the most cap savings, or mange the dead cap percentage better.

Sign a FA during FA spring (another $10-15M/year starter and/or more cheaper depth signings), sign a summer free agent, have money to trade or add a significant player by trade deadline or out of desperation for injury replacement, or roll over money to offset 2026 dead cap.
(+ the default incremental rookie pool money)

We don't know yet how/where Mickey wants to slot Hill, Jordan, and assumed make the Ramcyck June 1 retirement/cut.

It's just unlikely Carr would be traded. Trade him after June 1, it's a $20M dead cap charge and why eat that money and no longer have that player rostered? Who would take his contract and give us low draft picks. Not worth $10M.

New league year starts today, so news should be imminent on more actions. Let's see how it shakes out.

 

[ASaintFerLife]

Did you see/read the article by Albert Breer about the Saints and Carr? Its a pretty interesting read and take. Basically, even with the Carr re-structure, there appears to still be some rumblings behind the scenes that Carr playing NO in 2025 is not set in stone and they COULD trade him. It would be an after June 1 trade IF it were to happen. I'll see if I can find it.

That would hit us with a dead money charge of 19.2m with 1.2m in savings. It can be done.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm pretty sure it was solicited, he was asked by a reporter about his willingness to take a pay cut. He didn't just come out and just bring it up himself.

Carr: 'Super positive' talks with Saints about '25

Quarterback Derek Carr sat out seven games because of injury but said he has had "super positive" talks about his future in New Orleans, even if he's not willing to take a pay cut.

www.espn.com

Here's the article, you be the judge. Not sure if the question was asked, but it would be just as easy to say "I'll keep those discussions behind closed doors"..like he's done in many instances at the podium as Saints QB, vs just putting it out their publicly that he won't take a paycut.

It reads like there were potential discussions after the season ended that pointed in that direction, specifically when he pointed out the incomplete grade on him becasue of the games missed. In negotiations, that's leverage for doing something like a paycut. Ultimately Carr had the most leverage considering the Saints also made it clear they still wanted him, and that was prior to hiring Kellen. That along w/ the cap space issue it was always going to be a restructure, but they probably broached the subject of a paycut because they absolutely should have...he missed 7 games lol.

The below quote also i think confirms the reports that he was ok w/ testing the market.

"That's the life of a quarterback," Carr told ESPN. "Whenever the season doesn't end the way [you wanted] that's the person people look at. 'Well what money can we free up to get this and do this' ... and I'm fully confident with what I put on tape. I'm not worried, if that's the case, and it had to change and all that kind of stuff. I'm super confident that whatever it is, I could get anywhere else to play. And so I'm not worried about that, but at the same time, I just want to win

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Caleb Williams , Trevor Lawrence and Drake Maye have all made public comments about working with their new head coach. It probably means nothing, but the radio silence seems a little odd.

The posturing on both sides has been weird going back to before Moore was hired. Carr's unsolicited comments on a pay cut, followed immediately with stories on how much the organization likes Rattler...it's just different. Again, probably meaningless.

I get an eerie feeling that Carr doesn't want to be in New Orleans anymore and doesn't care about putting in all the work it takes to be a super bowl competitor or even post-season competitor. Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Lamarr Jackson..... They'd all be in the building already working with the new head coach and on the field practicing that new playbook. Geno Smith is rumored to have already met with Pete Carroll for goodness sake.

Carr? Nowhere to be found. For all we know, locked himself in a basement playing Fortnight with all the other fruit loop adults. Maybe even on a video call with Dennis Allen watching housewives while picking their boogers and drinking Latte's. Or worse, duo in Fortnight.

We may just have our own version of Kylar Murray who can't run and certainly can't dive.

 

[nakadish]

To me if feels like ML will never commit to a full rebuild, unless it’s mandatory to do so. This would’ve been a good opportunity, but I also feel like he most likely made some promises to KM about being competitive. A part of me is ok with a rebuild for obvious reasons to start anew, but the other part feels like we can still make some waves in this division that will welcome a new team as the champion of the division.

Good.

 

[St. Widge]

Carr: 'Super positive' talks with Saints about '25

Quarterback Derek Carr sat out seven games because of injury but said he has had "super positive" talks about his future in New Orleans, even if he's not willing to take a pay cut.

www.espn.com

Here's the article, you be the judge. Not sure if the question was asked, but it would be just as easy to say "I'll keep those discussions behind closed doors"..like he's done in many instances at the podium as Saints QB, vs just putting it out their publicly that he won't take a paycut.

It reads like there were potential discussions after the season ended that pointed in that direction, specifically when he pointed out the incomplete grade on him becasue of the games missed. In negotiations, that's leverage for doing something like a paycut. Ultimately Carr had the most leverage considering the Saints also made it clear they still wanted him, and that was prior to hiring Kellen. That along w/ the cap space issue it was always going to be a restructure, but they probably broached the subject of a paycut because they absolutely should have...he missed 7 games lol.

FWIW, Kat Terrell has said that she did not ask him if he would take a pay cut when she got that response. He volunteered the information to her.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

FWIW, Kat Terrell has said that she did not ask him if he would take a pay cut when she got that response. He volunteered the information to her.

That's exactly what I thought, but ya know...if ya say somethign like that and can't confirm it people are just going to assume he was asked. It wasn't a battle i was willing to fight lol.

I think it's pretty apparent from that article a discussion about him giving some money back was already broached to a degree. He decided to put it out in public that he wouldn't, and I'm sure the organization kept their mouth closed, and approached him again after Kellen spoke w/ him. He dug his heels in and stayed consistent so they activated their built in restructure and called it a day.

I'm trying to find the date in 2024 when they restructured Carr just for a comparison on when the move was made. I think that would tell us if conversations about a paycut were being had. While I do that...here's an article from January of last year that highlights how those restructure don't guarantee that the Saints can't walk away from Carr whenver they want. We're not tied to him unless we want to be.

What restructuring Derek Carr’s contract would mean for the Saints’ cap future — and the QB

MOBILE, Ala. — The New Orleans Saints are expected to restructure quarterback Derek Carr’s contract this offseason, a move that will give them salary cap relief in 2024 and one

www.nola.com

J.I. Halsell, a salary-cap expert who once worked for the Washington Commanders, said the last two void years allow the Saints to easily restructure Carr’s contract. Teams aren’t allowed to push money further than five years out, he said, so if the Saints restructure Carr’s contract this offseason, that 2028 void year would now have money on the books while 2029 would still account for nothing.



“The big hint here is they put three void years on the deal,” Halsell said. “That’s the biggest clue that tells you they contemplated they had to push money out on this deal.”

Halsell expressed skepticism that pushing more money into 2025 would make Carr a lock on the roster. He said the Saints’ history of navigating the cap makes them well-equipped to manage Carr’s dead cap hit, if they wanted to move on.

Found it. We restructured him in 2024 February 23rd. Way before the league year started. To me that suggest a different level of confidence and satisfaction w/ him than following last year. Basically it suggest that a regular restructure was going to happen, but there was never any need to talk about missed games etc. So while I could be wrong I think it's safe to say that what we think happened...happened.

https://www.wdsu.com/article/saints...-situation-locking-into-qb-long-term/46928256

 

[nakadish]

I get an eerie feeling that Carr doesn't want to be in New Orleans anymore and doesn't care about putting in all the work it takes to be a super bowl competitor or even post-season competitor. Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Lamarr Jackson..... They'd all be in the building already working with the new head coach and on the field practicing that new playbook. Geno Smith is rumored to have already met with Pete Carroll for goodness sake.

Carr? Nowhere to be found. For all we know, locked himself in a basement playing Fortnight with all the other fruit loop adults. Maybe even on a video call with Dennis Allen watching housewives while picking their boogers and drinking Latte's. Or worse, duo in Fortnight.

We may just have our own version of Kylar Murray who can't run and certainly can't dive.

Maybe Chipotle isn't as good in NOLA as it was in Vegas.