Saints met with top QB prospect Cam Ward [Schefter: CLE, NYG or maybe Saints have to make an offer compelling enough for #1 pick]

[Chuck McGill Esq.]

Would love Swimmer's input on this if we really want to turn up the heat on this thread.

 

[St. Widge]

Good points i pretty much agree with all of them. However, I think what’s exciting about him is his toughness and escapability and overall mobility. I’ve said that he lacks pocket presence, but it’s after the pocket breaks down, that he can still make things happen. And he’s surprisingly accurate on the run. He does retreat backwards, but is it out of fear, or to buy time to drop a 50 yard dime. The Deion element will make him slide some spots. Unless you’re Dallas where they embrace Deoin. Like I said, he’s intriguing enough to do a deep dive. He seems like the typical boom or bust QB. But I don’t think he’ll bust, because Deion will give him all the support he’ll ever need. If he doesn’t bust and he becomes great, we’ll certainly regret it.

I don't really think he's boom or bust. I think he actually has a high floor as a mid-level game manager QB much like Purdy. The one thing that could hurt that is if he can't learn to step up in the pocket and get the ball out before sacks, but both those things seem very coachable.

He hasn't shown to be a guy that can take over games which is why it's hard to see him as a high first round pick because his ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, but I also think he doesn't have a lot of risk. He really seems like a 2nd round guy, but QBs often get taken a round earlier than they should.

BTW, Kiper released a mock draft today in which he has us taking Dart at #9 (Ward and Sanders go top 3). I would not be happy with Dart at #9.

 

[Rexman100]

If you think being a pass-heavy team w/ Carr is the answer go look at his 1st season under Carmichael. He got hit...a lot. That's why they adjusted and searched for a run oriented PA offense to build around him and landed on Kubiak system. He's a QB that must be supported by a running game, always has been.

makes sense, but we signed new offensive coaches and let our run heavy coaches got to Seattle. The oline and running game coaches that we did sign, are from the Drew Brees era, therefore wouldnt you expect a similar offense? How will we generate a consistent running game without an attacking oline that Benton employed? For the record, im not saying a pass happy lean offense is the answer, im saying that they think it will be the answer. But i do agree that DC4 got hit alot and forced the pivot. So our offense will have to be something in the middle. I really wish we kept KK and co. under KM. Another couple seasons of that offense would be solid.

 

[St. Widge]

If you think being a pass-heavy team w/ Carr is the answer go look at his 1st season under Carmichael. He got hit...a lot. That's why they adjusted and searched for a run oriented PA offense to build around him and landed on Kubiak system. He's a QB that must be supported by a running game, always has been.

I do wonder what Moore's long term plan is. You are certainly right that Carr needs a strong running game to set up the play action passes, but I do wonder what Moore wants to do long term? My suspicion is that he wants an offense closer to what Sean Payton does than the Shanhan/Kubiak system because that is what he ran in the past, but it's hard to know how much his time in Philly changed what he wants to do long term.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I do wonder what Moore's long term plan is. You are certainly right that Carr needs a strong running game to set up the play action passes, but I do wonder what Moore wants to do long term? My suspicion is that he wants an offense closer to what Sean Payton does than the Shanhan/Kubiak system because that is what he ran in the past, but it's hard to know how much his time in Philly changed what he wants to do long term.

He's versed in Air Coryell from his time w/ Jason Garrett but also versed in West Coast Principles from his time w/ McCarthy. The Air Coryell is his foundation but he's willing to build on top of what works. Moore's proven strategic, bringing in the old RB's coach appeases Kamara. Keeping elements of the zone run will endear him to McCoy etc. If the plan is for Carr to be your QB, there's enough evidence out there to suggest leaning on PA, quick game, and running the ball to set up manageable 3rd downs, while taking well planned shots down the field.

 

[Rexman100]

I see. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't have any faith in Carr putting the offense on his arm and carrying the offense week in and week out. Even his best years with Gruden it was his teammates like Josh Jacobs, Darren Waller and Hunter Renfrow elevating him more then him elevating his teammates. And the only player on our offense that has been capable of doing that was been Kamara, who I don't think can do it anymore, and if so it'll be this last season at best.

I'll be super surprised if we don't try and target Jeanty even if it means we have to trade up. But even if we try really hard, it doesn't mean it will happen. I would be even more shocked if we come out of this draft without a RB in the first 2 rounds.

yea im not predicting what i want us to do, im predicting what i think they will do judging by the moves. Ellias makes a solid point that a pass happy O will find Carr in the concussion tent early and often. So, if we're not going to employ the run first KK (Shananhan) offense, then what will we do, if we're not a pass happy? Just because KM ran the run heavy in Philly doesnt mean its his goto offense. It strictly means that Philly had a dominant RB and Oline and a solid RPO QB. But, personelle-wise, we're completely different.

 

[TenTwo]

Swap firsts, trade Carr to TN, and give them whatever else they need to make the trade work

 

[Rexman100]

I do wonder what Moore's long term plan is. You are certainly right that Carr needs a strong running game to set up the play action passes, but I do wonder what Moore wants to do long term? My suspicion is that he wants an offense closer to what Sean Payton does than the Shanhan/Kubiak system because that is what he ran in the past, but it's hard to know how much his time in Philly changed what he wants to do long term.

Yea, KM's MO is unlocking the players super power. I think we need to make a list of the player and their super power. Feel free to modify the below list. But what im seeing below is a balanced PA offense :

1) DC4 - experienced great pocket passer (non mobile) w/ a little ability to run a naked bootleg
2) Kamara / Clyde EE - great receiving RB's that can needs space (perfect for the screen play and less up the middle grinder)
3) Olave - great route running WR that depends on precision passes (can also run the WR screen)
4) Shaheed - strictly deep threat take the top off the defense type (can also run the WR screen)
5) Taysom - versatile (run / pass / block / catch) (Not elite at any, but good at everything)
6) Kendre M - between the tackles RB w/ decent reveiving ability (deceptive speed)
7) Juwan Johnson specialist receiving TE w/ an ability to block
8) Foster M solid all around TE (not elite in any trait but a good blocker / receiver / route runner / runner after the catch
9) Pettis / Austin - good route running WR's that depend on precision passes (can also run the WR screen)

 

[St. Widge]

Yea, KM's MO is unlocking the players super power. I think we need to make a list of the player and their super power. Feel free to modify the below list. But what im seeing below is a balanced PA offense :

1) DC4 - experienced great pocket passer (non mobile) w/ a little ability to run a naked bootleg
2) Kamara / Clyde EE - great receiving RB's that can needs space (perfect for the screen play and less up the middle grinder)
3) Olave - great route running WR that depends on precision passes (can also run the WR screen)
4) Shaheed - strictly deep threat take the top off the defense type (can also run the WR screen)
5) Taysom - versatile (run / pass / block / catch) (Not elite at any, but good at everything)
6) Kendre M - between the tackles RB w/ decent reveiving ability (deceptive speed)
7) Juwan Johnson specialist receiving TE w/ an ability to block
8) Foster M solid all around TE (not elite in any trait but a good blocker / receiver / route runner / runner after the catch
9) Pettis / Austin - good route running WR's that depend on precision passes (can also run the WR screen)

I think most of that is right. But I don't really see Carr as a pocket passer or a bootleg guy. He's okay at both, but his super power is the play action passing game and particularly the deep ball off of it. If you sit him in the pocket as a drop back passer all too often he ends up holding the ball too long and then throwing it away because he lacks the pocket mobility to buy time for off schedule throws. I think he's best used when you limit his options, limit the time he has to think, and just make him throw quick off of play action. That's what KK did with him in the first two games and it worked well. It seemed to not work well when he tried to get Carr to sit in the pocket.

Which is going to be interesting because Moore likes to vary tempo on offense and Carr seems a difficult fit for that kind of offense. That said, Moore is the type that will adjust to the players he has so we will likely see less tempo than Moore would like.

 

[Rexman100]

I don't really think he's boom or bust. I think he actually has a high floor as a mid-level game manager QB much like Purdy. The one thing that could hurt that is if he can't learn to step up in the pocket and get the ball out before sacks, but both those things seem very coachable.

He hasn't shown to be a guy that can take over games which is why it's hard to see him as a high first round pick because his ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, but I also think he doesn't have a lot of risk. He really seems like a 2nd round guy, but QBs often get taken a round earlier than they should.

BTW, Kiper released a mock draft today in which he has us taking Dart at #9 (Ward and Sanders go top 3). I would not be happy with Dart at #9.

OK, ill concede that he will never bust. My bad. I will say that he's fearless, and fearless people dont bust. He doesnt shy away from contact at all, even when he could and still mae the play. Anyone with Shadeur low lights? All im seeing is that with given time he'll destoy you. However, regardless, of what I think he is, im thinking that Mickey and Co. feel they have a future w/ Rattler. I think Rattler can also make the plays in this below video, but its clear that Shadeur is more athletic and that matters in todays game.

 

[St. Widge]

OK, ill concede that he will never bust. My bad. I will say that he's fearless, and fearless people dont bust. He doesnt shy away from contact at all, even when he could and still mae the play. Anyone with Shadeur low lights? All im seeing is that with given time he'll destoy you. However, regardless, of what I think he is, im thinking that Mickey and Co. feel they have a future w/ Rattler. I think Rattler can also make the plays in this below video, but its clear that Shadeur is more athletic and that matters in todays game.

I don't think he has a lot of lowlights. He's a steady player that doesn't make many mistakes and takes the plays that are there. The problem is that he doesn't seem to create any plays that weren't there to begin with and he doesn't take over games.

And, to be fair while I don't think Sanders will bust, all QBs have some potential to just not make it. But, I do think Sanders is very likely to at worst be a Purdy type. I just don't think he's ever going to be one of the top 7 or so QBs. He's likely to hover in the 15 range depending on the team built around him.

But I do agree with Booker that I wonder if he hasn't reached his ceiling since he likely got the best coaching out there to get to this point. And, his apparent cockiness concerns me. If he plays well the guys on a team will feed off of it, but if it goes bad those guys could turn on him. That being said, I don't know the guy so the attitude stuff could just be false rumors or teams spreading stuff in hopes that he will drop to them.

 

[solarbear88]

You have to also consider that KM could finally be the coach that unlocks Dc4.

DC4 is 34 years old. He kind of is what he is a better than average NFL QB.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I’m a huge fan. He’s the only QB from this class that has the potential to be elite. I hate the Canes and repeated rooted against him but at some point I just gave up. The guy is a stud and a gamer.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

AFR take on it, with a good example of the Panthers going from 9 to 1 couple of years ago for Young.