18-41 as a Head Coach (1 Viewer)

[meily]

DA needs a good offensive coordinator like Payton needed a good defensive coordinator.

DA looks like a good coach if his offense played as well as his defense plays.

 

[fanoftheyear7]

You're not actually trying to compare the roster that Payton took over in 2006 to the one Allen took over in 2022, right?

What are you implying here? I’d love to know

 

[BreesusSaves]

What are you implying here? I’d love to know

Sean Payton took over a team that went 3-13 and needed a top down overhauling of the roster and coaching staff to a total change in culture from a loser to a winner.

Dennis Allen took over a very talented team with an outstanding winning culture that had bad luck with injuries in 2021. Prior to Brees' retirement, the Saints under Payton made four consecutive playoff appearances, four consecutive NFC South Championships, and before the injury, had Jameis freaking Winston at 5-2 as a starter with 14 TDs to just 3 INTs and very much looked like a team poised to take a fifth consecutive NFC South Championship and playoff appearance before a surreal amount of injuries.

Payton's 13-10 is incomparably different than Allen's 10-13.

 

[EGLSShin]

Part of DA's retention was the lack of our local media lighting a fire with the criticism. Watch, they're totally gonna scapegoat Carmichael and bring DA back another season because his "OC" failed him. Lets not talk about all the undisciplined play, like 2million penalties and his lack of overriding Carmichael on boneheaded play calling, especially in the redzone.

There was only THREE vocal people who do the media gig calling for this dudes head last year, unapologetically, Sigler, Asher and Moscona. Every one else: "Oh, you can't do that to a 1st season head coach." "Oh but the injuries though." "It was his first season, he needs more time." Yet the same things are transpiring on the field, even though the injuries haven't been AS bad but all the things a bad coaching staff does has repeated itself.

 

[Taker597]

DA’s defenders mainly want him to have a chance to bring in his own OC. Very few people here are defending both DA and Pete Carmichael.

He had multiple chances but Dennis was too scared

 

[AmerVet]

Part of DA's retention was the lack of our local media lighting a fire with the criticism. Watch, they're totally gonna scapegoat Carmichael and bring DA back another season because his "OC" failed him. Lets not talk about all the undisciplined play, like 2million penalties and his lack of overriding Carmichael on boneheaded play calling, especially in the redzone.

There was only THREE vocal people who do the media gig calling for this dudes head last year, unapologetically, Sigler, Asher and Moscona. Every one else: "Oh, you can't do that to a 1st season head coach." "Oh but the injuries though." "It was his first season, he needs more time." Yet the same things are transpiring on the field, even though the injuries haven't been AS bad but all the things a bad coaching staff does has repeated itself.

I just want a fierce leader who isn't afraid to demand more from his staff. All DA does is nothing at all.

 

[BarBar]

DA’s defenders mainly want him to have a chance to bring in his own OC. Very few people here are defending both DA and Pete Carmichael.

I think DA is a horrible head coach, but I do think he needs to have a good OC. Pete ain't it!

 

[CajunSaint08]

Payton followed 06 by missing the playoffs the next two seasons.

Yes, but not because our offense was faltering. Defense was the issue. So what did Payton do to fix the problem on defense, he fired and got another that worked. By 2016, 10 years into his Saints NFL head coaching career, Sean Payton was already on his 5th defensive coordinator. Not sure how many he had total in his complete tenure with the Saints, but 5 in 10 years is a lot. Not sure Allen will do the same. Only coaches he has replaced are the ones that left on their own.

 

[liveoakh]

36 of those games were with the Raiders, a bottom 5 franchise in the NFL over the past 20 years

He's 10-13 as the Saints HC, Sean Payton was 13-10 after 23 games as Saints HC.

What are you talking about? You can win 10 games and get fired in the NFL.

 

[liveoakh]

You can kinda get by with the dysfunctional org argument defending a player. But a coach....he is the organization...some of the dysfunction lies at his feet

All I know is Carr, Kamara, MT. Olave, Shaheed, Foster, Miller are all money, and we may have won all our games.............................If the O line would have held. Carr makes plays when given protection. Penning was the only change from last years line. Penning was a project LT, that was over drafted because of his nasty demeanor hype BS.

My man, by you guys putting Pete's feet to the fire over every game, it just leads to the false narrative of "if we just fire PC, and keep DA we will win." A more productive narrative, would be Loomis and DA are at fault. Make the choice of who to fire between DA and Loomis, not Pete and DA. Don't let Loomis scapegoat Pete for their failures. The man has lost 41 games, that is more than double his 18 wins. Time to go!!!

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I think DA is a horrible head coach, but I do think he needs to have a good OC. Pete ain't it!

He can't get a good OC because he's a lame duck HC at this point...it's either retreads or promotions from here on out under DA

 

[Lendro Furioso]

Are you reading to misunderstand me on purpose? We had no clue what the Saints were gonna be in 2006. They were the very definition of a surprise team. A strong offense and a competent defense propelled the team to unexpected heights. Four games into the following season, there was a lot of coming-to-earth to do. Ups and downs come with the sport, and when it was evident the defense needed a new direction, Payton made a change. He fired a friend. It took two full bad seasons to do so and it almost didn’t happen.

The 2006 Saints offense began by scoring 19, 34, 16, 18, and 17 points (the 2007 Saints started worse). They got it rolling after the bye but those aren’t the numbers that inspire confidence, are they? Dennis Allen’s specialty has never once been offense, but his side of the ball mostly takes care of its business. If they start faltering he can go but until then I’d like for him to at least hire one outside OC instead of whatever all this other mess of a conversation is. Including his Raiders record in the dialogue is pointless.

He’s been a head coach one other place and that other place is one of the worst franchises in pro sports, which is and remains my original point. Payton getting his playcalling duties stripped in NYG didn’t matter once things got clicking here. Were there constant posts on this forum about his tenure ending the way it did in NYG or did people chill out because his side of the ball performed?

I read this posts (and posts like this) and all I see is excuses, excuses, excuses. I’m tired of this. Either get it done or get out! This season DA decided to keep Carmichael. He got his hand-picked QB given the market, and every roster move he wanted. Yet we’re still a .500 team playing bad football. I’m sure there’s a litany of further excuses for this year: the offensive line, a new offense for Carr, lack of chemistry with the receivers.

Look at what DeMeco Ryans is doing with the team that just beat us. Defensive coach, team with far less talent than us, rookie QB. They’ll win some, lose some, but no doubt they’re going somewhere, whereas we’re stuck in the mire with more excuses.

If all this staff isn’t fired at the end of the year fans need to riot.

 

[SaintAlgiers]

Dennis Allen is a terrible head coach. Sean Payton came into an organization that was not much better than the Raiders organization-. In fact, the Raiders had won three Superbowls, so there is that. The Raiders were 8-8 the season before Dennis Allen. The Saints were 3-13 and ravaged by a hurricane, the season before Sean Payton. So I think that comparing the two doesn't make sense. Instead, compare Dennis Allen, Saints coach to Dennis Allen, Raiders coach. In both situations, Dennis task was to take a team that many felt were close to where they needed to be and to get them to the next level and back to championships. In both cases, he destroyed what ever the team had going and made things worse. That is his history. Both teams had won at least a superbowl. Whatever talent was available was squandered and/or mismanaged on both teams. Both teams had glaringly horrible roster decisions. Both teams had terribly mismanaged coaching staffs. Dennis Allen has enough of a track record that we can judge him on his own merit or lack thereof. Dennis Allen is what he is and by now it is clear. Dennis Allen is a terrible head coach.

 

[RJS]

He can't get a good OC because he's a lame duck HC at this point...it's either retreads or promotions from here on out under DA

You may be right, but I think Ron Rivera and Todd Bowles were on hotter seats than DA and they were able to bring in competent OC's.

 

[Lendro Furioso]

You may be right, but I think Ron Rivera and Todd Bowles were on hotter seats than DA and they were able to bring in competent OC's.

Which only tells you how much trouble we’re in.