American Airlines CRJ-700 collides with helicopter near Reagan National (17 Viewers)

[efil4stnias]

oh my.

So that was on ATC radar and not a single alert to either aircraft? Not good.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

What I don't get, with all the tech we have now in addition to as transponders, why are mid-air collisions even remotely possible.

Not to mention the helicopter should have radar.

 

[superchuck500]

Also interesting if accurate - the helo route at the X location is limited to 200 feet, accident at approx 400 feet.

 

[efil4stnias]

Pretty good summation of one pilots idea on what happened.

He thinks the helo pilot, when asked if he saw the "RJ" ( regional jet) was looking to his right and saw the jet DEPARTING. When told to go behind, and advised he would, he was behind that departing jet. Unfortunately it was the jet on approach from his left that he didnt see and realize THAT was the "RJ" ATC was referring to.

 

[efil4stnias]

Also interesting if accurate - the helo route at the X location is limited to 200 feet, accident at approx 400 feet.

so that route 4 - thats what i was seeing on FLightRadar 24 on playback this am for every rotary aircraft. Hugging that right bank. Consistently.

 

[superchuck500]

A person associated US figure skating has stated that there were 14 skaters in the program on board the aircraft - along with their parents. They were the finalists that had remained at an event in Kansas.

Passengers who were on board AA flight that crashed with no survivors

Figure skater, Spencer Lane, 26, alongside Russian couple Evgenia Shishkova, 53, and Vadim Naumov, 56, have been confirmed dead.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Devildog]

and they are "goggles" so left/right field of view is limited ( unless looking directly at the object ) and even then, i can imagine the depth issue unless you stay on that object to determine speed/heading etc.

Just glancing at wont give you enough information.

what a terrible, tragic accident.

NVGs are more like a projection into your eyes. Not really like putting glasses on and you just see at night. The field of view is very limited which is why you have to constantly keep turning your head to see what's going on.

 

[porculator]

Ugh can see the wreckage from my office.

It's just striking that there's so little activity there now, its basically just a grave less than 24 hours later, meanwhile flights have started landing and taking off again.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

This guy recreated the flight



You can see the airliner was banking on its landing approach just before the collision

 

[Rickboy]

It's a very sad day for me. That Blackhawk is from Bravo Company in the 12th AVN BN. That's my old battalion and company. I've flown that route numerous times either back and forth to Langley or a few other sites. We also fly a similar route to get to the Pentagon. This is one of the newer VH-60s that my unit started receiving just as I was leaving the Army. They're really nice on the inside.

12th AVN is a VIP helicopter unit that carries Generals and other dignitaries around the Military District of Washington. We were also responsible for evacuating Congress in the event of an attack. Most of the pilots are highly experienced. We had a lot of CW3 to CW5 warrant officers flying our birds. If there was a WO1 or CW2 flying, there was almost always a CW4 or higher in command. The crew chiefs are usually an E4 or higher rank with a pretty good amount of experience.

So a few things that have gotten my attention are the altitude of the 'hawk and the use of NVGs. When we fly that route, we are as low as 100' above the Potomac. You can see from the video that the 'hawk started climbing before the accident. I have no idea what was going on in the pilots mind at that time. I'm guessing there was some confusion with ATC's command to maintain visual seperation (totally normal) and the pilot was looking at the wrong aircraft when the accident happened but that doesn't explain the altitude gain.

On NVGs, I get that this was a training mission and likely a check ride but never once in my 5 years at 12th AVN did we use NVGs around Reagan National. We did NVG training a good distance away from there, usually at Ft AP Hill. There is zero need for NVGs around Reagan. Everything is very well lit and NVGs are way too restrictive. They basically give you tunnel vision, taking way any peripheral site. This can be overcome by having your crew chief maintain visual scanning around the area. In a Huey, the crewchief can easily move around to see out the left or right. but the crew member seats in a Hawk are facing towards the sides. Most times, the crew chief is seated on the left, behind the co-pilot. That would have him looking away from the direction the oncoming airliner was coming from. If they had two crew members scanning, I think this may have been avoided. Beyond that NVGs should have never been used on that flight to begin with. I suspect there will be a policy change on that when all is said an done.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Just waking up to this. What a tragic disaster.
Have to anticipate the Blackhawk pilot had no idea was in approach vector for DCA.

The one thing I am struggling with is the post of flight path. (@DavidM ) as it appears the chopper turns directly into path of plane. Directionally, he was headed toward plane, meaning the landing lights would/should have been visible. Unless they meshed with lights from surroundings

Idk just a tragic result.

100 ft altitude difference and this is a near miss, not a collision. Damn

If you look at the Blackhawk flight path, it looks like it just takes off from a neighborhood. Thats weird.

 

[superchuck500]

It's a very sad day for me. That Blackhawk is from Bravo Company in the 12th AVN BN. That's my old battalion and company. I've flown that route numerous times either back and forth to Langley or a few other sites. We also fly a similar route to get to the Pentagon. This is one of the newer VH-60s that my unit started receiving just as I was leaving the Army. They're really nice on the inside.

12th AVN is a VIP helicopter unit that carries Generals and other dignitaries around the Military District of Washington. We were also responsible for evacuating Congress in the event of an attack. Most of the pilots are highly experienced. We had a lot of CW3 to CW5 warrant officers flying our birds. If there was a WO1 or CW2 flying, there was almost always a CW4 or higher in command. The crew chiefs are usually an E4 or higher rank with a pretty good amount of experience.

So a few things that have gotten my attention are the altitude of the 'hawk and the use of NVGs. When we fly that route, we are as low as 100' above the Potomac. You can see from the video that the 'hawk started climbing before the accident. I have no idea what was going on in the pilots mind at that time. I'm guessing there was some confusion with ATC's command to maintain visual seperation (totally normal) and the pilot was looking at the wrong aircraft when the accident happened but that doesn't explain the altitude gain.

On NVGs, I get that this was a training mission and likely a check ride but never once in my 5 years at 12th AVN did we use NVGs around Reagan National. We did NVG training a good distance away from there, usually at Ft AP Hill. There is zero need for NVGs around Reagan. Everything is very well lit and NVGs are way too restrictive. They basically give you tunnel vision, taking way any peripheral site. This can be overcome by having your crew chief maintain visual scanning around the area. In a Huey, the crewchief can easily move around to see out the left or right. but the crew member seats in a Hawk are facing towards the sides. Most times, the crew chief is seated on the left, behind the co-pilot. That would have him looking away from the direction the oncoming airliner was coming from. If they had two crew members scanning, I think this may have been avoided. Beyond that NVGs should have never been used on that flight to begin with. I suspect there will be a policy change on that when all is said an done.

Man, sorry this is hitting close to home.

Is that Langley to Belvoir flight just so common for the unit that they use it to train?

I posted analysis earlier that agreed with your observation about altitude - it said the ceiling on that helo route is supposed to be 200'.

 

[Rickboy]

Man, sorry this is hitting close to home.

Is that Langley to Belvoir flight just so common for the unit that they use it to train?

I posted analysis earlier that agreed with your observation about altitude - it said the ceiling on that helo route is supposed to be 200'.

Yea it's a common route. We would take Generals up to Langley all the time.
There is a track that shows the 'hawk originated just north of Langley. I'm not sure what that's all about. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists are having a field day with that.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[superchuck500]

Yea it's a common route. We would take Generals up to Langley all the time.
There is a track that shows the 'hawk originated just north of Langley. I'm not sure what that's all about. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists are having a field day with that.

Did it not originate at Langley?