Bills release RT/LG La’el Collins (Merged) (4 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Right.... but it doesn't mean the short comings don't exist... or that we didn't fix the same shortcomings we had at the end of last year... and that because of that... Kubiak will have to scheme around them relentlessly.

Which logically (not extreme) leads back to my initial point of... There was no point in drafting players and making signings that don't change the state of the team overall... If we were going address a group... then address the heck out of it... make it so it's near impossible not to have the exact same issues you had last year...

In the end... we are having the exact same discussions about the exact same deficiencies we had last year... ergo we failed to draft and sign players sufficient enough to resolve those same issues....

Here we are. Full circle.

Hope isn't going to beat 1 on 1 coverage... nor is it going to stone wall Brian Burns.

Part of the issue is relative to your own opinion that they didn't do enough. You have your own opinon of how that should have taken place.

By my account you feel the Saints should have...

Found a way to draft Bowers
Also found a way to draft multiple T's
Also found a way to sign starting caliber T's in Fa.

It appears only then, would their moves have been sufficient enough to appease you.


Do you feel they had enough draft capital and money to do those things?

Would you be satisfied had they resigned Peat, moved up to draft Bowers, and then used their 2nd on a Tackle? (Jackson Powers Johnson, Patrick Paul, Jake Fischer, and Kingsley Suamataia were olineman available)? And perhaps still used a 5th on Bub Means?


Trying to get a grasp of your logic here and if it was possible.

 

[TribuneUK]

No, because the possible solutions are not a choice of 'all' or 'nothing'. Your original point remains terrible.

 

[Infoman]

Part of the issue is relative to your own opinion that they didn't do enough. You have your own opinon of how that should have taken place.

Not just my opinion... That's the point... every other article, or post here is about the fact that we appear weak in the same areas... and everyone has a take on how that should have been addressed... and since it looks like it was not addressed all are viable opinions until proven otherwise.

By my account you feel the Saints should have...

Found a way to draft Bowers - Within reason - Heck Yes
Also found a way to draft multiple T's - If not then multiple playmakers at WR or TE... But Heck Yes.
Also found a way to sign starting caliber T's in Fa. - If not then multiple playmakers at WR or TE... But Heck Yes.

Do one or the other... Not half arse neither... which is what was done.

It appears only then, would their moves have been sufficient enough to appease you. I don't need to be appeased - I want to see any sort of measurable progress / direction toward addressing IN FULL glaring and obvious issues. I do not see that.


Do you feel they had enough draft capital and money to do those things? We find such capital to draft DE's seemingly all the time... so yeah - Sure.

Would you be satisfied had they resigned Peat, moved up to draft Bowers, and then used their 2nd on a Tackle? (Jackson Powers Johnson, Patrick Paul, Jake Fischer, and Kingsley Suamataia were olineman available)? And perhaps still used a 5th on Bub Means? That's a slam dunk... along with adding another FA OT as insurance.


Trying to get a grasp of your logic here and if it was possible. It was...

 

[Infoman]

No, because the possible solutions are not a choice of 'all' or 'nothing'. Your original point remains terrible.

Only if you are okay with nothing...

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Then explain why we are having the exact same discussions - about the exact same concerns - - about the same positions of weakness that we had at the very end of last year - ad nauseum - right now?

I'll go get my sleeping bag, popcorn, rye whiskey, and some pepto bismol awaiting your most riveting insight on how I am wrong. LMAO

I see you keep mentioning not bringing in quality free agent offensive linemen in the off season. I just checked some Top Free Agent lists and there weren't many and most re-signed with their teams. Do you have any names they could/should have pursued? Zeitler was one to possibly pursue, but Detroit landed him.

And do you pass on Kool-Aid, possibly the best corner in the draft, who inexplicably fell in the draft into our lap. We've had great success with players that fell in the draft and considered a steal, but weren't a position of need - Deuce, Cam Jordan, CJGJ, A.T. Perry (so far), etc. So, I think Kool-Aid was a good pick as talent superseded need.

I just don't see the magic fix that was out there free agency and they went with the draft flow. We could have passed on Rattler, Means or Boyd in the fifth round for offensive line, but what caliber would we get? Christian Boyd in the sixth and an OL in Ezrim in the seventh. So you're argument really comes down to an OL instead of Kool-Aid.

So where do you see a specific fix even with the benefit of hindsight? Try to trade for one? But we don't know if they didn't try and it takes two for a deal.

 

[TribuneUK]

Only if you are okay with nothing...

Your inability to recognise the gap between all or nothing is ultimately your problem.

Just don't expect others to absorb a terrible idea by osmosis. It's falling flat for a reason.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I see you keep mentioning not bringing in quality free agent offensive linemen in the off season. I just checked some Top Free Agent lists and there weren't many and most re-signed with their teams. Do you have any names they could/should have pursued? Zeitler was one to possibly pursue, but Detroit landed him.

And do you pass on Kool-Aid, possibly the best corner in the draft, who inexplicably fell in the draft into our lap. We've had great success with players that fell in the draft and considered a steal, but weren't a position of need - Deuce, Cam Jordan, CJGJ, A.T. Perry (so far), etc. So, I think Kool-Aid was a good pick as talent superseded need.

I just don't see the magic fix that was out there free agency and I they went with the draft flow. We could have passed on Rattler, Means or Boyd in the fifth round for offensive line, but what caliber would we get? Christian Boyd in the sixth and an OL in Ezrim in the seventh. So you're argument really comes down to an OL instead of Kool-Aid.

So where do you see a specific fix even with the benefit of hindsight?

I think were trying to figure out the same thing. He's got his thoughts on how we tried to fix the holes, and the route we took simply isn't good enough for him. Could we have done more? Arguably, do I think they did enough....time will tell. They needed a LT, they got one. They needed more pass-rush, they signed Chase Young. They needed a breath of fresh air schematically, they hired a new OC.

They touched on all their major points lol, whether they did it enough is subjective. No colletive amount of names and people that support whether they did or not is going to change anytihng lol.

Glad I'm not the only one trying to figure this guys logic out.

 

[Infoman]

Your inability to recognise the gap between all or nothing is ultimately your problem.

Just don't expect others to absorb a terrible idea by osmosis. It's falling flat for a reason.

You're wrong... I recognize the heck out of Nothing... still looking for what All looks like.... the gap I leave to you.

If it's falling flat - let's have a bet on how many threads second guessing, articles posted, suggested additions, suggested trades, or begging for an upgrade at OT, TE, and WR before the season starts here...

You know... the same ones from last season.

I'll start the over / under at 20.... let's see how flat it is... LOL

 

[TribuneUK]

You're wrong... I recognize the heck out of Nothing... still looking for what All looks like.... the gap I leave to you.

If it's falling flat - let's have a bet on how many threads second guessing, articles posted, suggesting additions, suggesting trades, or begging for an upgrade at OT, TE, and WR begore the season starts here...

You know... the same ones from last season.

I'll start the over / under at 20.... let's see how flat it is... LOL

Still trying to pivot I see. Your idea was that it's better not to address OL at all than to draft Fuaga.

Lord above. This hill to die on, just because you didn't get Bowers.

 

[Infoman]

I think were trying to figure out the same thing. He's got his thoughts on how we tried to fix the holes, and the route we took simply isn't good enough for him. Could we have done more? Arguably, do I think they did enough....time will tell. They needed a LT, they got one. They needed more pass-rush, they signed Chase Young. They needed a breath of fresh air schematically, they hired a new OC.

They touched on all their major points lol, whether they did it enough is subjective. No colletive amount of names and people that support whether they did or not is going to change anytihng lol.

Glad I'm not the only one trying to figure this guys logic out.

We are miles apart on what "enough" is... and if they couldn't do enough at OT and TE/WR... then they should have exhausted every resource to fully address one or the other... based on where we are today, and this very thread topic... We did not do either.

It's not that complicated.... and obviously I hope Penning, Fuaga, Salvideri, Johnson, Foster, AT, Wilson, and Means all prove me wrong.

 

[Infoman]

Still trying to pivot I see. Your idea was that it's better not to address OL at all than to draft Fuaga.

Lord above. This hill to die on, just because you didn't get Bowers.

Correct - I didn't pivot... read... I have said as much many times. Fixing one piston in an engine - that has five pistons - but 2 others are still broken... leaves you with a broke engine still.... If you don't fully fix the engine... you might as well buy a jet and hope to fly. We bough one piston... we have no mechanic... and we have some economy JetBlue vouchers to show for our efforts.

 

[TribuneUK]

Correct - I didn't pivot... read... I have said as much many times. Fixing one piston in an engine - that has five pistons - but 2 others are still broken... leaves you with a broke engine still.

I return you to the man dying of thirst in a desert, ordering a LayzeeBoy.

That you think it makes sense is probably the tragic thing about it.

Maybe everyone who's told you you're wrong can help by having a whip round for a poster of Bowers for your bedroom wall.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I think were trying to figure out the same thing. He's got his thoughts on how we tried to fix the holes, and the route we took simply isn't good enough for him. Could we have done more? Arguably, do I think they did enough....time will tell. They needed a LT, they got one. They needed more pass-rush, they signed Chase Young. They needed a breath of fresh air schematically, they hired a new OC.

They touched on all their major points lol, whether they did it enough is subjective. No colletive amount of names and people that support whether they did or not is going to change anytihng lol.

Glad I'm not the only one trying to figure this guys logic out.

I'm still waiting for his answers to my questions before I pile on.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We are miles apart on what "enough" is... and if they couldn't do enough at OT and TE/WR... then they should have exhausted every resource to fully address one or the other... based on where we are today, and this very thread topic... We did not do either.

It's not that complicated.... and obviously I hope Penning, Fuaga, Salvideri, Johnson, Foster, AT, Wilson, and Means all prove me wrong.

They did.

They needed a LT - they drafted Fuaga
They needed a RT - they converted their former 1st round LT to RT.
They needed a TE - They've added two developmentals
They needed a 3rd/4th WR to compete with Perry they signed one in FA.
They needed a better scheme - They brought in Kubiak
They needed anothe weapon - They've committed to using Taysom more than the previous staff


They attacked everything they could, not enough time has passed to say whether or not it was enough. That in itself is the fallacy in your opinion...we don't truly know yet. Everything is speculation to this point.

 

[Infoman]

I'm still waiting for his answers to my questions before I pile on.

It's cool... I don't mind... I'll let you cherry pick whatever "what ifs" in other thread... We didn't need another CB, we could have kept Peat, we could have gotten rid of dead weight on the current roster (you know who) to get players at need positions... there we're options and opportunities. I mean we can argue specific merits and disagree on particulars if you want.... but it still leads us right back here - to the reality of threads inquiring about signing washed up players at OT, WR, and TE... because despite the sunshine... everyone knows we didn't do enough to address them all offseason.