Saints Can Drew Brees still throw it deep? (1 Viewer)

[sfidc3]

I think that's a practice issue. I recall a few times he overthrew him.

Yes this exactly. Brees arm is about as good as it’s always been. We just didn’t protect him towards the end of last year so he could set his feet. With the Oline depth we have this yr...look out

It's not a practice issue and his arm is not what it was 5 years ago, to believe that is to be in total denial.

There are multiple examples of him underthrowing Ginn but look no further than his early INT against the Eagles in the playoffs. He has a clean pocket, has time to step into the throw and still throws it about 2 yards short...4-5 years ago that is a sure TD....

He is still more than good enough to lead us to another championship, but you better believe teams are aware that his arm strength is declining....I have faith SP can compensate for that with his brilliant play calling...just hoping the oline holds up better than last year....

 

[rsmith2783]

It's not a practice issue and his arm is not what it was 5 years ago, to believe that is to be in total denial.

There are multiple examples of him underthrowing Ginn but look no further than his early INT against the Eagles in the playoffs. He has a clean pocket, has time to step into the throw and still throws it about 2 yards short...4-5 years ago that is a sure TD....

He is still more than good enough to lead us to another championship, but you better believe teams are aware that his arm strength is declining....I have faith SP can compensate for that with his brilliant play calling...just hoping the oline holds up better than last year....

If you notice it really wasn't much of an issue when Cooks was here. The underthrowing didn't start until Ginn arrived. I guess that's what made me curious if it's a practice or timing issue that was never worked on since the deep ball is rarely called.

 

[St.Fury]

Not like he used to.

Everyone had to notice the underthrows last year.

He's still one of the top 3 QBs and can take the team to another SB, but if we have to throw deep consistently, it will not be pretty.

I think most of those were timing issues. The ball got there. He even had a few overthrows. Get the timing right. We don’t need him to throw 60+ yards. Most of those long plays come from shorter (than 60 yards) throws with YAC.

 

[saint_drago]

I think most of those were timing issues. The ball got there. He even had a few overthrows. Get the timing right. We don’t need him to throw 60+ yards. Most of those long plays come from shorter (than 60 yards) throws with YAC.

So true. One of the best passes Drew ever threw was that 98 yarder to Brandin Cooks in 2016. When Drew released the ball he was about 5 yards deep in the end zone. Cooks caught the ball at the 30 yard line so the ball was only thrown around 35 yards. The placement was so perfect that Cooks was able to make the catch in stride and then nobody was going to catch him. It was a perfectly executed play.

He can still do that for sure. But he's no longer routinely throwing the ball 50-60 yards down the field and hitting guys in stride. You can't expect a 40 year old QB to do the same things he was doing in his early to mid 30s.

 

[Bayouvette]

Drew never had the deep ball arm. Thats just not his game.

 

[mjcouvi]

Pretty sure he over throws as many deep balls as he under throws. But he's pretty much the most accurate deep ball thrower ever, so hard to complain

 

[mjcouvi]

He is the most accurate qb in history, no doubt about that

 

[sfidc3]

If you notice it really wasn't much of an issue when Cooks was here. The underthrowing didn't start until Ginn arrived. I guess that's what made me curious if it's a practice or timing issue that was never worked on since the deep ball is rarely called.

And that was 4-5 years ago, yes?

Drew never had the deep ball arm. Thats just not his game.

Totally disagree, he had a much stronger arm than most think when he was in his prime. When he was throwing to Devery and Meachum he threw many 40-50 yard passes on a rope....he clearly cannot do that now....

 

[rsmith2783]

And that was 4-5 years ago, yes?



Totally disagree, he had a much stronger arm than most think when he was in his prime. When he was throwing to Devery and Meachum he threw many 40-50 yard passes on a rope....he clearly cannot do that now....

Compare 2016 to 2017. No noticeable decline in arm strength. It just appeared that Brees wasn't on the same table with Ginn as he was with Cooks.
The only way things would have been different is if Brees had a Peyton Manning super decline moment, and that didn't happen.

 

[sfidc3]

Compare 2016 to 2017. No noticeable decline in arm strength. It just appeared that Brees wasn't on the same table with Ginn as he was with Cooks.
The only way things would have been different is if Brees had a Peyton Manning super decline moment, and that didn't happen.

I'm not sure exactly when it happened, but I really don't think there is much of a debate that Brees cannot throw the ball deep with the same velocity he did 10 years ago...I think it was a very gradual decline in arm strength, I think Brees is super human but he is human....no comparison to Manning whose neck injuries caused his arm strength to decline to the point where he couldn't throw a good out pattern at the end....

 

[louder]

I think Drew still has enough to be effective throwing the deep pass. His throw to Arnold in the Rams game - hit Arnold in the hands. It was a dropped pass, but the throw was good. I believe it was last season where Brees threw a deep ball to Mike Thomas in the end zone. Again, it hit him right in the hands. Mike just didn’t get both feet down. But it was a good throw.
Has Drew over or under thrown some deep passes? Yep. But he also has had some bad passes on short and intermediate throws. He’s not infallible. Drew can even be counted on for a few wtf passes per season.
I am not denying Drew has lost some zip on his passes. He’s 40. I get it. But I don’t see him in some sort of significant decline.

 

[ARSaint]

Soooo, I did a little research and was surprised by the results! You may be surprised too. My research started with finding his longest throws in the air for his entire career. You can look these up pretty easy on you tube. My method was simple 1. Add the yardage of ball in flight from where Brees threw it to where it was caught, on some occasions I may have added a yard or 2 if the receiver caught it at a high point. 2. Based on the horizontal field measurements, I was able to estimate the flight of the ball horizontally for a total yards in flight. For reference, center hash to same side sideline is approx. 23 yards. The objective was to see how far the ball was thrown in flight. These were also all completed passes so this does not include uncompleted passes as they are harder to find. This does not take into account time of ball flight or trajectory which can also be used as a measure of arm strength. For example a 35 yard pass that does not go higher than 10' would be a harder thrown ball then one that goes 40 but with a more distance friendly trajectory. This was not an exact science but can serve as a guide. Obviously, these are not all his throws . There were some that he made that were only 45-50 yards but was off back foot or someone in his face that were pretty impressive as well. There were several of throws that were around 50 especially in 2017-18 to ginn. Here are the results of the throws I included in chronological order:

1. 2004, Pass to Parker - 56 yards in air with an extra yard of horizontal flight =total 57 yards in flight.
2. 2011, Pass to Henderson - 56 yards in air with 0 extra yards horizontal flights =56 yards in flight.
3. 2012, Pass to Morgan - 49 yards in air with approximately 6 additional yards in horizontal flight = 55 yards in flight.
4. 2015, Pass to Cooks - 50 yards in vertical air with approximately 10 additional yards in horizontal flight = 60 yards in flight.
5. 2016, Pass to Cooks - 34 yards in vertical air with approximately 22 additional yards in horizontal flight = 56 yards in flight.
6. 2017, Pass to Ginn vs Bears - 54 yards in vertical air with approximately 1 additional yards in horizontal flight = 55 yards in flight.
7. 2017 playoffs, Pass to Ginn vs Panthers - 48 yards in vertical air with approximately 2 additional yards in horizontal flight = 50 yards in flight.
8. 2018, Pass to Smith-33 yards vertical with 20 yards horizontal = 53 yards in flight.
9. 2019, Pass to Ginn vs Rams in NFC championship - 50 yards in vertical air with approximately 20 additional yards in horizontal flight = 70 yards in flight!!!

So, I will let you make up your mind based on those numbers. However, I did make some other observations and possible reasons that he has the perception of lost arm strength. When I started this,I thought his max throw was about 55 yards with a drop off to about 50 yards but that is not what I saw on video.

Observations:
1. In 2018, it appears that a lot of teams were playing 2 deep safeties. Way more than he has seen in past. There seemed to be a blueprint that was to keep everything in front.
2. Ginn being out really hurt his deep threat. from 2017 to 2019 Ginn had several balls that were thrown 45-55 yards in air to him. With the exception of the one to Smith no one else had any....zero (at least that were caught that I found). And the one to Smith was a drop in between coverage not over the top.
3. Some of the deep balls that he did under throw were late throws or just came out of his hand bad.
4. Okay, this one is key. It appears that Drew has changed his philosophy on the deep throws as his career has progressed. He use to throw a decent amount of balls too far, but now even on his long throws they are rarely in stride. As they were more often earlier. The receiver may have to slow just a bit to not overrun ball coming in. I think this is intentional. Like in golf, a short putt is missed 100% of the time. Where as one that may have been hit just a tad hard can still fall in. Bree's figures an overthrown ball is missed 100% of the time. Why not make sure the receiver has a shot at it....maybe this is why he is one of the most accurate passers on the deep ball? Just speculation, put you can see the obvious progression to this in his career and I don't think it has anything to do with arm strength. Also, if you have listen to some of his interviews over the last few years, he hints to this without coming right out and saying it.

Thanks for reading! Let me know what you think.

 

[Saints 318]

Last year i notice that we really didn't run a lot of deep plays like we're known to do.

 

[ARSaint]

Last year i notice that we really didn't run a lot of deep plays like we're known to do.

You are correct, especially when Ginn was out! I thing that the defense dictated alot of that.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

He throws 20 yard out routes with precision. That's how your bread is buttered in the NFL.