Car Dealerships- i just... (2 Viewers)

efil4stnias

Play at your own risk
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
34,170
Reaction score
34,079
Location
Covington
Online
Sticky Post
Wife wants QX 60. found one locally - went to test drive. Fantastic. So they take ours for a spin to get trade in value.

after 20 min, he sits down and says $9k. ( KBB anywhere between $10,200 and $12k ) Retail i see them go for low $15k to 19k ( same model/trim/mileage ) I looked at him directly and said thats insulting. I know they have to make $$$ but this was 3k below high end and 6-8k below retail.

We left and went to CarMax who just sent us trade in offer of $14k

thats a 5k differential. How in the world can these two be almost 50% different? Can someone please help me understand or is it simply the dealer was going to low ball me to make as much on the resale as possible? ?
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2001
Messages
26,849
Reaction score
71,552
Location
Earth
Offline
I like the little guy dealerships.
Support small business
I'm a new or certified buyer now. I want bumper to bumper coverage for at least 12/12k. Probably costing me a bit more, but I like having the dealership on the hook for fixing any issues until I'm fully comfortable with a used vehicle.
 

CajunInVA

Pro-Bowler
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 5, 2002
Messages
680
Reaction score
688
Age
45
Offline
I’ve used Costco’s car buying program several times now. Walk into the dealership knowing the price I’m going to pay. It’s scary easy and they seem to be pretty good deals. And if not, well ignorance is bliss and I think I got a good deal. Not having to haggle makes it worth it, really.
 

tomwaits

Frontier Psychiatrist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
16,333
Reaction score
6,222
Age
45
Location
Pflugerville, TX
Online
The differences between dealerships is crazy. In 2015 when we bought wife's car (new), one dealership was absolutely terrible (Maxwell Ford in Austin). It was a huge mega-dealership part of (Edit "Group 1,") a big conglomerate. They could not meet their own advertised internet price much less do any better and sales guy kept "going back to talk to the manager". At one point the sales guy asked my wife if her company was hiring, and he clearly hated it there as well. We walked from there as it came to a point where we felt they were not ethical and it didn't mater anymore what they were going to offer, we had no trust in them.

Dealership #2 was fantastic. It was not part of a conglomerate and the sales rep had been there for years. My company qualified for employee pricing and they gave us a substantially better price than their advertised pricing. No stupid back and forth with sales rep talking to a manager.
 
Last edited:

St. Widge

Socially Distant
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
37,749
Reaction score
21,614
Age
49
Location
4th Ward Soldier
Online
It is very nuts, no doubt! But car dealers very well know the majority of people coming in already know the specific model and price the buyer expects to pay. They know ALL of the sites buyers have access to, to do their research. The key is, when you walk into the showroom, you have got to have your number you will pay; nothing more. And NEVER, I mean NEVER answer this question when asked by the salesman. And they ask EVERY buyer. “WHAT KIND OF NOTE ARE YOU LOOKING TO PAY?” The reason being; is they can give you a decent price on the car, but hose you on the financing rate. I always reply; “WHAT IS THE PRICE YOU ARE WILLING TO SELL ME THE CAR FOR?”. They go into double talk. LOL.
Personally, I don't walk into a dealership unless I already have the sales price of the car agreed to by email or by phone. I usually refuse to negotiate by anything other than email because it cuts out a lot of the bullshirt. Then when I do go in, I always have the best rate I can get from 3rd party financing and tell them the number I have (usually I tell them a little lower then I actually have) and ask them if they can beat it? Of course, you still have to negotiate the trade in, but honestly I'm just looking for a reasonable price and if I don't get top dollar but I do get the convenience of not having to do a private sale or online sale, that is worth some money to me.

But, they will make their money on way or the other. They wear you down which is why I try to have as much agreed to ahead of time as possible. Once you are in the dealership they make you play the waiting game and get you tired. If they don't get you on the sale price, they get you on the trade-in. If they can't get you on those two, they get you on financing. If not that then it's gap insurance or an extended warranty. And so on . . .
 

St. Widge

Socially Distant
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
37,749
Reaction score
21,614
Age
49
Location
4th Ward Soldier
Online
I'm a new or certified buyer now. I want bumper to bumper coverage for at least 12/12k. Probably costing me a bit more, but I like having the dealership on the hook for fixing any issues until I'm fully comfortable with a used vehicle.
Yep. I used to put a lot of miles on a car for work and I always bought the extended warranty. It probably wasn't a great deal for me, but I like the security of knowing that if something goes wrong with my car the dealer will fix it with no charge to me.
 

saintmdterps

If we give ya the boogie, can ya handle it?
VIP Subscribing Member
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
16,701
Reaction score
18,863
Age
60
Location
Salisbury, Maryland
Online
Just another Carmax fanboi chiming in.


I’ve bought my last three vehicles from them.. My experiences there have been great and hassle-free, as has pretty much everyone else i know who’s bought from there.. A friend of my father’s just bought a car there for his daughter; he’s a mechanic and said he would not want to be in the used car business becuase it’d be extremely difficult to compete against Carmax.. as in efil’s case, they usually offer several thousand more for trade-ins than other dealers do, yet i dont find there prices to be much higher than other places.. i dont find them to be the cheapest, but i dont mind paying a little more since every vehicle i have bought there, though anywhere from 2-5 yrs old, was indistinguishable from a brand new vehicle.. the thing i like best about Carmax is that, since I’m picky about cars, you can go to their website and find the exact model, features, color combo etc that you want , wherever in the country it’s located.. for a few hundred extra dollars, they will ship it to the store nearest you, or what ive done in the past is buy a one way plane ticket and drive the vehicle home... there are newer companies like Carvana popping up where they will sell you a car sight unseen and then deliver it to you- but i like the brick & mortar aspect of Carmax b/c i like to be able to be able to see the vehicle, sit in it and drive it before i buy, although I’m sure Carvana has a lenient return policy.
My wife bought her CRV at Carmax and it was the easiest sale ever. I searched high and low and could not beat the price. They gave her decent money on the trade-in as well.
 

Saint_Ward

Don't be a Jerk.
Staff member
Administrator
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
47,477
Reaction score
41,525
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Online
Wife wants QX 60. found one locally - went to test drive. Fantastic. So they take ours for a spin to get trade in value.

after 20 min, he sits down and says $9k. ( KBB anywhere between $10,200 and $12k ) Retail i see them go for low $15k to 19k ( same model/trim/mileage ) I looked at him directly and said thats insulting. I know they have to make $$$ but this was 3k below high end and 6-8k below retail.

We left and went to CarMax who just sent us trade in offer of $14k

thats a 5k differential. How in the world can these two be almost 50% different? Can someone please help me understand or is it simply the dealer was going to low ball me to make as much on the resale as possible? ?
Yes.

Secondly, if you come back with that dealer, or another one, with your carmax offer, they'll often try to work a deal, now that you have a real offer to use as leverage.

It's called Asymmetric Information in Economics.

.
 

superchuck500

guarding the potatoes
VIP Subscribing Member
VIP Contributor
Diamond VIP Contributor
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
58,577
Reaction score
90,171
Location
Mt. Pleasant, SC
Offline
Yes.

Secondly, if you come back with that dealer, or another one, with your carmax offer, they'll often try to work a deal, now that you have a real offer to use as leverage.

It's called Asymmetric Information in Economics.

.
In other words, always go to CarMax first.
 

Saint_Ward

Don't be a Jerk.
Staff member
Administrator
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
47,477
Reaction score
41,525
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Online
Consumer reports used to do a great little report on a vehicle. For 15$ or so, you could get the manufacturer invoice by zip code for as specific vehicle. You'd need the option codes for it but it was very detailed. When I used it, I knew the vehicle had 600 in holdback and I offered 100$ over invoice leaving the holdback for them. Brought a 22k ish sticker to 17.5k. Warned them that i'd get up and walk off they tried VIN etching or mysterious coating scams in finance. I also walked in with a approved loan at a rate I was happy with large enough to cover the sale price. I always give them the chance to beat that rate but they usually can't unless you work in some more down payment.

Last time I tried to get the consumer report, it sent me to true car which is not nearly the same.
Part of the problem is that many dealers already have the cars vin etched and all that before you even walked in the door. They're usually smart enough not to have the paint protection and interior protection on there though.

Had one guy try to charge me like $500 for nitrogen fill. I laughed in his face. (to be fair, they had all of that stuff lumped together in a special package... but my quick rough calculation would have the nitrogen fill at around that price.. which is laughably stupid).
 

Saint_Ward

Don't be a Jerk.
Staff member
Administrator
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
47,477
Reaction score
41,525
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Online
If you figure out dealerships please let the rest of us know. The last time I was truck shopping I found the one I wanted. Went there and we got to within $1000 of where we needed to be. They would not come down that $1000. They kept asking where I wanted my monthly payment. I wanted it where that $1000 would have put me. I left. Bought a different truck but kept an eye on that one. They lowered the price $2000 before it sold. They had me in the building ready to sign and refused to budge over $1000 and they still were willing to let me walk even though they knew my offer was fair.
Then walk.

The key is that you have to really not 'need the car', and definitely not need it now.

They'll either play or they won't. But they are always in the long game. Customers are usually playing a short game.
 
OP
efil4stnias

efil4stnias

Play at your own risk
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
34,170
Reaction score
34,079
Location
Covington
Online
Always go to CarMax first you dingbat. Their offers are good for seven days.
LOL well Covington didnt have ANY to test drive. Place in Hammond had the exact model she wanted ( black w/ tan interior ) . So i went, reserved, thinking its a dealership and ll entertain. And mind you, had they offered me equal or a bit more on my current Acura, i probably would have pulled the trigger ( happy wife, happy life ) I wasnt looking to make top dollar, just keep my notes in range of current.

In the end, blessing in disguise.

Car Max had same unit, less mileage, in Kennabruh for? $1900 less than dealer in Hammond . I will reduce my note around $100/mo AND getting a 2 yr old suv.

On its way to northshore ( 2-4 days - and i offered to drive that thing myself to get quicker lol ) for test drive and if she likey, she getty.

I gots a kid abt to go to college. I need to be saving my kerns.
 
OP
efil4stnias

efil4stnias

Play at your own risk
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
34,170
Reaction score
34,079
Location
Covington
Online
Yes.

Secondly, if you come back with that dealer, or another one, with your carmax offer, they'll often try to work a deal, now that you have a real offer to use as leverage.

It's called Asymmetric Information in Economics.

.
I texted the salesman from Carmax when they emailed me the offer. He said let me take to them. I said show em. At this point, im going with CarMax.

Had the finance guy been a bit more professional in his approach while sitting in dealership, i may have entertained him having "last look". But because of his manner in which he approached the wife and i, i just wanted him to have the number of $14,000.
 

sbadeaux

All-Pro
VIP Contributor
Joined
Nov 16, 1998
Messages
1,664
Reaction score
2,416
Offline
Wife wants QX 60. found one locally - went to test drive. Fantastic. So they take ours for a spin to get trade in value.

after 20 min, he sits down and says $9k. ( KBB anywhere between $10,200 and $12k ) Retail i see them go for low $15k to 19k ( same model/trim/mileage ) I looked at him directly and said thats insulting. I know they have to make $$$ but this was 3k below high end and 6-8k below retail.

We left and went to CarMax who just sent us trade in offer of $14k

thats a 5k differential. How in the world can these two be almost 50% different? Can someone please help me understand or is it simply the dealer was going to low ball me to make as much on the resale as possible? ?
Bad Salesperson or Dealer to be that much off. All Dealers use the Auction numbers to determine the cars value. There are different auction companies , but that is what is used to determine wholesale value. Typically the dealer will add $2500 to the wholesale price and what it cost to refurbish the vehicle if they are going to resell it. If they are not, they usually buy at auction value or close, then send it to auction.

KBB is not a good place to get used car values. Itcan be off high or low by thousands. KBB and other websites do not buy cars so they are using what is reported or projected by others. The only true way to know a cars value is to find out what someone will write you a check for.

keep in mind also if your new car dealer Was going to send your vehicle to auction and not resell it he could not pay you the same that another company would if they were going to keep the vehicle and resell it. That also has to be taken into account.
 
OP
efil4stnias

efil4stnias

Play at your own risk
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
34,170
Reaction score
34,079
Location
Covington
Online
Bad Salesperson or Dealer to be that much off. All Dealers use the Auction numbers to determine the cars value. There are different auction companies , but that is what is used to determine wholesale value. Typically the dealer will add $2500 to the wholesale price and what it cost to refurbish the vehicle if they are going to resell it. If they are not, they usually buy at auction value or close, then send it to auction.

KBB is not a good place to get used car values. Itcan be off high or low by thousands. KBB and other websites do not buy cars so they are using what is reported or projected by others. The only true way to know a cars value is to find out what someone will write you a check for.

keep in mind also if your new car dealer Was going to send your vehicle to auction and not resell it he could not pay you the same that another company would if they were going to keep the vehicle and resell it. That also has to be taken into account.
and that may very well be the difference - CarMax will likely turn and sell it, whereas dealer was going to auction it off.

And if all dealers basically operate in the same manner, then you just saved me from ever stepping foot in a dealership again. lol
 

0rion

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
7,726
Reaction score
12,893
Location
Central Ohio
Online
Then walk.

The key is that you have to really not 'need the car', and definitely not need it now.

They'll either play or they won't. But they are always in the long game. Customers are usually playing a short game.
100% agree. I have no issue walking out. I can always find something else and in this case I did.

That said....my wife kills me. She see's the car she wants and now it's me against the dealership AND her. Unfortunately for everyone involved I have the internet in my pocket and can see what the value of a car is. I'll keep it fair but I definitely come up with a number and that's my stopping point.....not a penny more. I don't haggle either....no going back to talk to the manager multiple times. Get him out and I'll deal with him instead. It's all tricks and games they play....I don't play them.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

 

New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

 

Headlines

Top Bottom