COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (3 Viewers)

[Mr. Sparkle]

You forgot that people sitting in a restaurant are immune.

Except when walking to/from the table or going to the restroom, when covid will attack you if you aren't masked.

 

[gboudx]

Patrons in restaurants still have to wear masks in parts of the country? Living in Texas, we may be unaware of mandates in other parts of the country since masks quit being a thing months and months ago.

 

[SharonT]

In a post-Omicron world, anything less than a K95 mask is theatre IMO. A plane (or subway car or restaurant) full of people in cloth or plain surgical masks is basically at the same risk as a plane full of people without masks. In the real world, the masks that 99.9% of the public wears are pretty much worthless.

It's like rubbing a rabbits foot but it provides the illusion of safety, so here we are.

This makes no sense, logically, so I have to wonder what the purpose is of repeatedly tying together, forcing, these snippets together to make some...point?

• "post-Omicron world" - like there will never be another strain of any virus of any magnitude ever? (even as reports circulate) Or any other world health crisis that may preclude humans working together for the benefit of all?
  
  
• "anything less than a K95" - like anything less than the best is worthless? What? Why get out of bed without 100% chance zero bad things will happen? Now nothing is better than something?
  
  
• "theatre" - dog whistle. Literally the definition of theater would be those on soapboxes ridiculing the steps taken to reduce the spread, now that those steps have worked.
  
  
• "basically the same risk" - No. That's not how viruses work. If no virus is present, no one is at risk of that virus. But there's always some virus of some sort, some mold spores, some irritant or whatnot floating around.
  
  
• "illusion of safety" - doesn't this sum up every waking moment for all of us? There are no guarantees. We each have our own version of risk assessment.
  
  I guess I don't understand the need to play on people's emotions, with the EXTREME language. Why not just use common sense?
  
  I also don't understand why with everything else going on, The Mask is the enemy. With the planes, you've got people from all over suddenly mixed breathing the same air - perfect opportunity if you're a virus wanting to spread. Sick people have been getting on planes forever. If wearing a mask for a couple of hours reduces the risk of getting any sort of sick from some joker coughing and sneezing, I'm in. I hate missing work. If that coughing joker is wearing a mask, my chances of breathing that in go way down. Common sense.
  
  So, no, not blinking an eye if masking is extended for a bit in certain areas. "Err on the side of caution" may result in work productivity. Don't you think it would benefit all of us if fewer people got sick?

 

[jayd265]

Except when walking to/from the table or going to the restroom, when covid will attack you if you aren't masked.

that always made me laugh seeing people put the mask on when opening door. walk to table. sit down, take mask off, order food, hang out, drink, put mask on, walk out.

"safety"

 

[SaintInBucLand]

that always made me laugh seeing people put the mask on when opening door. walk to table. sit down, take mask off, order food, hang out, drink, put mask on, walk out.

"safety"

Following science, clearly.

 

[jayd265]

Following science, clearly.

 

[SharonT]

So, clearly, some people learned nothing and instead use this as an opportunity to ridicule others.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

So, clearly, some people learned nothing and instead use this as an opportunity to ridicule others.

If you are talking about our back and forth about the restaurant lunacy, then yes, I was indeed ridiculing the absolute non-science that was taking place by those practices. As Sparkle said, it's absolute theatre to have people wearing a mask when they walk in the door and to their table, but perfectly fine to remove it while seated.

 

[SharonT]

If you are talking about our back and forth about the restaurant lunacy, then yes, I was indeed ridiculing the absolute non-science that was taking place by those practices. As Sparkle said, it's absolute theatre to have people wearing a mask when they walk in the door and to their table, but perfectly fine to remove it while seated.

Because... the risk of breathing in a small particle is greatest when you're closest to that (possibly/probably) asymptomatic person?

Because... it's the nice thing to do to ridicule someone who could possibly be immune-compromised and wants to reduce risk AND get out of the house?

Or it's just time to build back up those walls between us? In case we forget it's beautiful weather outside and we have much to be thankful for.

 

[Arathrael]

If you are talking about our back and forth about the restaurant lunacy, then yes, I was indeed ridiculing the absolute non-science that was taking place by those practices. As Sparkle said, it's absolute theatre to have people wearing a mask when they walk in the door and to their table, but perfectly fine to remove it while seated.

The problem there is the notion that it was 'perfectly fine' to remove it while seated. It was never 'perfectly fine'. It was always a risk. But you either allow people to take that risk, or you close all restaurants, because people can't wear masks while they're eating.

They can, however, wear masks when they're not eating, and doing so still offers a reduction in risk through reducing the quantity of potentially virus-carrying particles and droplets exhaled and inhaled, and reducing the distribution of those particles and droplets.

If you look at it in terms of risk reduction and not risk elimination, it's an understandable approach. If you can't do that, it's not, but then, it's not the approach that's the problem there.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

This makes no sense, logically, so I have to wonder what the purpose is of repeatedly tying together, forcing, these snippets together to make some...point?

• "post-Omicron world" - like there will never be another strain of any virus of any magnitude ever? (even as reports circulate) Or any other world health crisis that may preclude humans working together for the benefit of all?
  
  
• "anything less than a K95" - like anything less than the best is worthless? What? Why get out of bed without 100% chance zero bad things will happen? Now nothing is better than something?
  
  
• "theatre" - dog whistle. Literally the definition of theater would be those on soapboxes ridiculing the steps taken to reduce the spread, now that those steps have worked.
  
  
• "basically the same risk" - No. That's not how viruses work. If no virus is present, no one is at risk of that virus. But there's always some virus of some sort, some mold spores, some irritant or whatnot floating around.
  
  
• "illusion of safety" - doesn't this sum up every waking moment for all of us? There are no guarantees. We each have our own version of risk assessment.
  
  I guess I don't understand the need to play on people's emotions, with the EXTREME language. Why not just use common sense?
  
  I also don't understand why with everything else going on, The Mask is the enemy. With the planes, you've got people from all over suddenly mixed breathing the same air - perfect opportunity if you're a virus wanting to spread. Sick people have been getting on planes forever. If wearing a mask for a couple of hours reduces the risk of getting any sort of sick from some joker coughing and sneezing, I'm in. I hate missing work. If that coughing joker is wearing a mask, my chances of breathing that in go way down. Common sense.
  
  So, no, not blinking an eye if masking is extended for a bit in certain areas. "Err on the side of caution" may result in work productivity. Don't you think it would benefit all of us if fewer people got sick?

"post-Omicron" - it became clear that, unlike Delta or Alpha, non-KN95 masks offer little to no protection vs Omicron. The most recent variant of concern is even more transmissible, so, that logic still seems pretty sound. Omicron is second only to the measles in recorded history in terms of transmissibility - I think its a fair marking point.

"anything less than a K95" -

Leana Wen, public health professor at George Washington University and an emergency physician, has urged the public to wear high-quality masks and described cloth masks as, “little more than facial decorations.”

Cloth face masks won’t cut it against omicron, expert says

“Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations and should not be considered an acceptable form of face covering.”

thehill.com

"theatre" - I'm using it in the same context of TSA security theatre, where we still take off our shoes because of 1 guy who did that thing 1 time 20 years ago. It's not adding any material level of safety or security - it's for show.

I don't think I used any extreme language, and I don't wish covid on anyone. But I strongly dislike dumb rules that aren't based in real risk-based thinking. I am also concerned that the urge to just do something will put us back into masking and/or virtual learning for schools, which has been a slow-moving disaster that we're going to be paying for over a generation or more (IMO).

I am not anti-mask, but I'm not going to pretend they are something they're not. To me, that is using common sense. FWIW I am staunchly pro-vax, as it is the one intervention we have that we know is highly effective in a post-Omicron world.

 

[Saint_Ward]

In a post-Omicron world, anything less than a K95 mask is theatre IMO. A plane (or subway car or restaurant) full of people in cloth or plain surgical masks is basically at the same risk as a plane full of people without masks. In the real world, the masks that 99.9% of the public wears are pretty much worthless.

It's like rubbing a rabbits foot but it provides the illusion of safety, so here we are.

I 100% disagree with you. I've pretty much only have been in surgical masks and I've never caught covid, even being exposed to people who had it.

That's not my only data point, but what you are saying is factually incorrect. It isn't a binary outcome. And it isn't binary risk.

And to be clear, I'm not defending plain cloth masks. But even those aren't worthless.

 

[Saint_Ward]

And, if anything, that last post article was really advocating n95, kn95, or surgical masks should be the only ones allowed because they are most effective.

When I went to go see Tool, you weren't allowed to come in with a gaiter or cloth mask, unless it had a filter.

Now, they didn't enforce it much once people got inside at their seats. But that's a whole other thing.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I 100% disagree with you. I've pretty much only have been in surgical masks and I've never caught covid, even being exposed to people who had it.

That's not my only data point, but what you are saying is factually incorrect. It isn't a binary outcome. And it isn't binary risk.

And to be clear, I'm not defending plain cloth masks. But even those aren't worthless.

And there are plenty of people who were absolutely fanatical about mask-wearing who still caught it, and others who've never once worn a mask but never contracted COVID. We all have anecdotal evidence but if you look at the spread of omicron, mask wearing didn't slow it down one bit.

If it makes someone feel better to wear a mask, nobody's stopping them. But once the virus entered into omicron levels of transmissibility, cloth and plain surgical masks became superfluous. But everyone got anchored to the idea that masks work and we're loathe to acknowledge the fact that they dont because it feels like giving ground to the anti-vax, covid-deniers.

 

[Goatman Saint]

And there are plenty of people who were absolutely fanatical about mask-wearing who still caught it, and others who've never once worn a mask but never contracted COVID. We all have anecdotal evidence but if you look at the spread of omicron, mask wearing didn't slow it down one bit.

If it makes someone feel better to wear a mask, nobody's stopping them. But once the virus entered into omicron levels of transmissibility, cloth and plain surgical masks became superfluous. But everyone got anchored to the idea that masks work and we're loathe to acknowledge the fact that they dont because it feels like giving ground to the anti-vax, covid-deniers.

Masks to a wearer breathing, you’re right has always been needing a k95 level. Where thick cloth masks and such work is to contain the water aerosol when the person who is sick coughs. That they do work with. And yes n95 is better.

To anyone who says masks don’t work, the next time you have surgery specifically request the OR team to not wear them.