COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.]

[Arathrael]

No I said that anything that causes your body to produce insulin or mTOR stops autophogy. The sad part is the biological process I described is in your article and you are too busy acting smug and superior to connect the dots. Does eating affect insulin and mTOR production...yes or no? The answer is yes. Does the presence of insulin and mTOR inhibit autophogy (any autophagy)? Yes

Therefore the two are connected.

Again with the pointless personal attacks.

Look, this is a forum. Anyone can see what you actually said. Here:

the traditional 3 meals and snacks prevents autophagy

This is wrong. It does not. Because starvation-independent autophagy is not prevented by the "traditional 3 meals and snacks". Obviously. Full stop, nothing further to discuss.

I don't know why anyone would be so offended by the notion that while fasting may be beneficial to some individuals for some conditions in some circumstances, other people have found it makes their conditions worse, which includes people with long Covid. Or by the fact that mitophagy occurs without fasting, meaning that fasting is not essential for it to take place.

But spending page after page after page repeatedly attacking me while simultaneously refusing to actually read what I post is not going to change any of that. It's just wasting time and probably annoying anyone trying to read this thread for Covid information.

So, again, knock it off. PM me if you have to. Just give it a forking rest already.

 

[Dago]

Again with the pointless personal attacks.

Look, this is a forum. Anyone can see what you actually said. Here:


This is wrong. It does not. Because starvation-independent autophagy is not prevented by the "traditional 3 meals and snacks". Obviously. Full stop, nothing further to discuss.

I don't know why anyone would be so offended by the notion that while fasting may be beneficial to some individuals for some conditions in some circumstances, other people have found it makes their conditions worse, which includes people with long Covid. Or by the fact that mitophagy occurs without fasting, meaning that fasting is not essential for it to take place.

But spending page after page after page repeatedly attacking me while simultaneously refusing to actually read what I post is not going to change any of that. It's just wasting time and probably annoying anyone trying to read this thread for Covid information.

So, again, knock it off. PM me if you have to. Just give it a forking rest already.

So stop posting lmao

You act like you aren't keeping this alive

If you can't disprove the effects of insulin and mTOR on autophogy, then it is you who is refusing to stay relevant. Nothing you have posted has addressed the effect of insulin and mTOR on autophogy.

So unless you can prove that insulin and mTOR have no effect or that eating food doesn't cause the body to produce insulin or mTOR you are wrong.

If you don't want this to continue, answer that issue or just stop posting. It's that simple. But for you to keep posting while blaming others for posting is just childish

 

[Arathrael]

So stop posting lmao

You act like you aren't keeping this alive

If you can't disprove the effects of insulin and mTOR on autophogy, then it is you who is refusing to stay relevant. Nothing you have posted has addressed the effect of insulin and mTOR on autophogy.

So unless you can prove that insulin and mTOR have no effect or that eating food doesn't cause the body to produce insulin or mTOR you are wrong.

You claimed that eating three meals and snacks prevents autophagy. The reality of starvation-independent autophagy and mitophagy occurring in the fed state - as supported by multiple citations including your own - shows that to be false. Hence, fasting is not necessary for mitophagy to occur, which will still occur when eating three meals and snacks.

Hence, an argument that fasting would "absolutely" be beneficial for long Covid because autophagy wouldn't occur otherwise is false.

That's the issue. It's been addressed. Repeatedly.

As for your newfound obsession with insulin and mTOR, I'm sure you're not daft enough to be claiming that being fed prevents something that occurs when fed, so it has literally no bearing on the above. You don't need to understand why it still occurs. You just need to know that it does.

If you don't want this to continue, answer that issue or just stop posting. It's that simple. But for you to keep posting while blaming others for posting is just childish

I'm naturally going to respond to misrepresentations of what I've said, for example, your assertion that I haven't addressed the pertinent issue. I'm also not a fan of misinformation.

The problem there is the posting of those, not the responding. So again, I'd suggest knocking it off.

 

[Dago]

You claimed that eating three meals and snacks prevents autophagy. The reality of starvation-independent autophagy and mitophagy occurring in the fed state - as supported by multiple citations including your own - shows that to be false. Hence, fasting is not necessary for mitophagy to occur, which will still occur when eating three meals and snacks.

Hence, an argument that fasting would "absolutely" be beneficial for long Covid because autophagy wouldn't occur otherwise is false.

That's the issue. It's been addressed. Repeatedly.

As for your newfound obsession with insulin and mTOR, I'm sure you're not daft enough to be claiming that being fed prevents something that occurs when fed, so it has literally no bearing on the above. You don't need to understand why it still occurs. You just need to know that it does.


I'm naturally going to respond to misrepresentations of what I've said, for example, your assertion that I haven't addressed the pertinent issue. I'm also not a fan of misinformation.

The problem there is the posting of those, not the responding. So again, I'd suggest knocking it off.

We both know you looked and found I was correct about the insulin and mTOR....you would have posted it had you found otherwise

It's ok to admit it

 

[Dago]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

LMAO I just realized why you don't realize you are wrong. I didn't see it before because frankly I didn't think you would be so ignorant about basic biology. You are making cellular starvation and obstaining from food to be the same thing! OMG LMAO

You don't even understand your own damned article LMAO

Your article is about mitophogy and virus immunity...it literally has nothing to do with what we are talking about and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what enables autophogy or mitophogy LMAO

Going without food temporarily is not cellular starvation LMAO

 

[faceman]

Is there a particular reason for oatmeal at the end of the day?

Also, I'd probably sub in orange juice in place of the orange. It's not that I don't like oranges, but would rather drink juice.

Oatmeal is high in insoluable fiber. It doesnt allow the bad LDL cholesterol to stick to the artery and vainel walls. Think of it
as the bodies liquid plumber. Beans do the same as well

Orange juice will give you the daily vitamin c requirements. The pulp from the fruit gives the fiber benefit. The same with
apples. The skin is where the true health benefits are

 

[Arathrael]

LMAO I just realized why you don't realize you are wrong. I didn't see it before because frankly I didn't think you would be so ignorant about basic biology. You are making cellular starvation and obstaining from food to be the same thing! OMG LMAO

You don't even understand your own damned article LMAO

Your article is about mitophogy and virus immunity...it literally has nothing to do with what we are talking about and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what enables autophogy or mitophogy LMAO

Going without food temporarily is not cellular starvation LMAO

I apologise for your confusion. But you're still, somehow, spectacularly missing the point.

Your claim was that "the traditional 3 meals and snacks prevents autophagy".

To show that's wrong, all that's necessary is to show that autophagy occurs in different scenarios, including ones that apply to normal conditions, when people do eat three meals and snacks. Which is what I've been doing. Repeatedly.

Or do you think viruses only utilize mitophagy to promote their survival when their host hasn't eaten three meals and snacks? Do you think autophagy occurring at basal levels means "at basal levels except when people have eaten three meals and snacks?"

Why are you so reluctant to acknowledge that normal eating doesn't prevent autophagy from occurring at all?

 

[Dago]

I apologise for your confusion. But you're still, somehow, spectacularly missing the point.

Your claim was that "the traditional 3 meals and snacks prevents autophagy".

To show that's wrong, all that's necessary is to show that autophagy occurs in different scenarios, including ones that apply to normal conditions, when people do eat three meals and snacks. Which is what I've been doing. Repeatedly.

Or do you think viruses only utilize mitophagy to promote their survival when their host hasn't eaten three meals and snacks? Do you think autophagy occurring at basal levels means "at basal levels except when people have eaten three meals and snacks?"

Why are you so reluctant to acknowledge that normal eating doesn't prevent autophagy from occurring at all?

So let's review
1) you know nothing about autophogy and don't understand that cellular starvation has nothing to do with fasting

2) I posted a peer reviewed article from 2020 outlining the role of fasting in autophagy

3) I have literally broken down the hormones involved (which you know nothing about)

4) and at this point your argument boils down to "because I said so"

It's just sad at this point. You dont know how autophagy works. You posted articles that you were unable to comprehend and misrepresented them due to your ignorance, and you are too insecure to admit it

 

[Arathrael]

So let's review

Since by 'review' you mean 'completely ignore the post you're quoting in favour of more misrepresentation and passive aggressive attacks,' let's not.

I think the post you've quoted is pretty clear and to the point, and it should be entirely evident to anyone by now - assuming there's anyone left who isn't far beyond caring at this point - that the fact autophagy still occurs in normal, fed, conditions and is not prevented by three meals and snacking is well supported, and clearly not "because I said so."

Heck, as I said before, your link supports that: "However, some studies demonstrated that mitophagy occurred both in fasting and fed state with no significant differences or may be induced in fed state".

That's the point of contention here. I'm not the subject. That is. Ignoring it in favour of launching personal attacks is not going to achieve anything.

 

[Arathrael]

I don't think I saw this posted, unless I missed it. The FT did an analysis projecting what the US's hospitalisation rate would have looked like, had vaccination kept up with the levels seen in other countries, like Denmark:



As usual, worth clicking through to the thread. There's also a graph of comparative case fatality rates:



It's still good relative to what it was without vaccination, but it's clear that lower vaccine uptake, at what might not seem that significant a difference if you're just eyeballing the figures, has a pretty significant impact in practice.

 

[Dago]

Since by 'review' you mean 'completely ignore the post you're quoting in favour of more misrepresentation and passive aggressive attacks,' let's not.

I think the post you've quoted is pretty clear and to the point, and it should be entirely evident to anyone by now - assuming there's anyone left who isn't far beyond caring at this point - that the fact autophagy still occurs in normal, fed, conditions and is not prevented by three meals and snacking is well supported, and clearly not "because I said so."

Heck, as I said before, your link supports that: "However, some studies demonstrated that mitophagy occurred both in fasting and fed state with no significant differences or may be induced in fed state".

That's the point of contention here. I'm not the subject. That is. Ignoring it in favour of launching personal attacks is not going to achieve anything.

I was looking for the part wear you manned up and admitted the articles you thought supported your OPINION had nothing to do with the subject and that you admitted that you were wrong in thinking cellular starvation had anything to do with fasting, but I don't see it.

Somehow I am not surprised

 

[Dago]

@Arathrael
I'm sure by now you have searched and know you are completely wrong but just in case...

Regulation of autophagy by amino acids and MTOR-dependent signal transduction - PMC

Amino acids not only participate in intermediary metabolism but also stimulate insulin-mechanistic target of rapamycin (MTOR)-mediated signal transduction which controls the major metabolic pathways. Among these is the pathway of autophagy which ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Complete description on how certain amino acids trigger the body to produce the hormone mTOR which stops autophogy (including on a cellular level). How do we get amino acids? By consuming protein. Additionally, the article talks about how insulin stops autophagy. When does our body produce insulin? When we consume sugars and carbs.

Additionally I stated that AMPK is necessary to trigger autophagy as that signals the body not to produce mTOR

In other words, while your body is processing foods that cause it to produce insulin and mTOR (i.e. carbs and protein), autophagy does not happen.

Now are you ready to admit that your articles had nothing to do with the subject and you didn't understand what they were about or are you just going to keep up this charade because you are unable to admit you are wrong?

 

[Madmarsha]

sardines.

Great for Omega 3. Wish I could stomach the dang things.

 

[bclemms]

Took two years to get a decent study showing vitamin D levels prior to an infection and the eventual outcome after a covid infection but the data shows really strong correlations between low vitamin D and severe illness and death.

Vitamin D deficiency linked to severity, deaths among hospitalised Covid-19 patients: Study - Times of India

US News: WASHINGTON: A new study has found that low levels of vitamin D are associated with severe cases of Covid-19 as well as mortality.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com