COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.]

[bonnjer]

let me add this for snacks. A handful of pecans or almonds are chock full of mono unsaturated fats. Those are the good
guys. They remove the plaque that builds up on the artery walls caused by LDL. Fark fasting. eat healthy and cheat from
time to time

Sounds like you've got some DASH diet type stuff going on there. It does work.

 

[sfidc3]

I guess this belongs here, I just got a call from my doc. My blood work came back. I dropped from 415 to 190 on
total cholesterol. I've given up alcohol , processed foods,red meat and other junk for six months. I've lived on veggies,cold water fish and legumes during this time. Forgive me for I'm about to celebrate with a foot long shrimp and oyster poboy fully dressed with blue plate mayo. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Way to go my friend. I'm on cholesterol meds as well, I was just over 300 and am now at about 210, I haven't made as drastic a change to my diet but it's a lot healthier than before....Cheers mate

 

[faceman]

Sounds like you've got some DASH diet type stuff going on there. It does work.

I became a diet nerd after i was diagnosed with high cholesterol. My diet requires some dedication

breakfast - peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread with an orange. A perfectly balanced nutritional meal.

Lunch. 3.5 ounces of cold water fish, veggies, and beans.

Dinner- eat what you want and polish off with a bowl of oatmeal before bed

 

[faceman]

Way to go my friend. I'm on cholesterol meds as well, I was just over 300 and am now at about 210, I haven't made as drastic a change to my diet but it's a lot healthier than before....Cheers mate

add nuts and cold water fish mon frere. those are dynanite when it comes to lowering LDL

 

[Dago]

I mean, I've said autophagy occurs at basal levels, I've said there are different forms of autophagy, some of them occur in nutrient rich scenarios, I've even given an example of SARS-CoV-2 inducing mitophagy, and I've linked to studies to back it up.

I'm just not sure how many other ways there are to say "starvation is not the only way autophagy is induced." Is there one you'll acknowledge? Or are we just wasting time here?

Why are you being disingenuous?

I stated in one of my first posts that there is more than one way to induce autophagy so why do you keep pretending like I didn't?

Furthermore, my assertion is that in order to induce autophagy, one must have low blood sugar, low insulin, and have depleted glycogen stores in the liver.

So basic reading comprehension tells me that any activity that creates that state would induce autophagy...not just fasting.



However, it isn't just about inducing autophagy....it's about staying in it long enough to achieve benefits. Achieving autophagy thru exercise is meaningless if you immediately eat something that causes your body to create insulin (carbs) or mTOR (proteins) as both are anabolic processes that stops autophagy

In order for autophagy to start, Adenosine Tri Phosphate molecules have to lose a couple phosphates to become AMP which results in your body creating a hormone called AMPK and one of the things that AMPK does is act as a signaling switch to stop production of mTOR (which, like insulin, prevents autophagy)

so regardless of caloric intake, if what you eat stimulates the production of insulin or mTOR, then you won't have autophagy which is why fasting or intermittent fasting is the most effective way of having the sustained benefits of autophagy but certainly not the only way to put the body into a state of autophagy (at least for the average American). Cruciferous vegetables shouldn't cause the body to produce insulin or mTOR

 

[DaveXA]

I became a diet nerd after i was diagnosed with high cholesterol. My diet requires some dedication

breakfast - peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread with an orange. A perfectly balanced nutritional meal.

Lunch. 3.5 ounces of cold water fish, veggies, and beans.

Dinner- eat what you want and polish off with a bowl of oatmeal before bed

Is there a particular reason for oatmeal at the end of the day?

Also, I'd probably sub in orange juice in place of the orange. It's not that I don't like oranges, but would rather drink juice.

 

[Arathrael]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

 

[SWJJ]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

They do occur, but starvation (fasting) absolutely upregulates it.

We know the mechanism.

Abstract​

Macroautophagy (herein referred to as autophagy) is an evolutionarily conserved self-digestive process cells adapt to starvation and other stress responses. Upon starvation, autophagy is induced, providing cells with needed nutrient supplies. We report here that Unc-51-like kinase 1 (Ulk1), a key initiator for mammalian autophagy, undergoes dramatic dephosphorylation upon starvation, particularly at serine 638 and serine 758. Phosphorylations of Ulk1 are mediated by mammalian target-of-rapamycin (mTOR) kinase and adenosine monophosphate activated protein kinase (AMPK). AMPK interacts with Ulk1 in a nutrient-dependent manner. Proper phosphorylations on Ulk1 are crucial for Ulk1/AMPK association, as a single serine-to-alanine mutation (S758A) at Ulk1 impairs this interaction. Compared to the wild-type ULK1, this Ulk1-S758A mutant initiates starvation-induced autophagy faster at an early time point, but does not alter the maximum capacity of autophagy when starvation prolongs. This study therefore revealed previously unnoticed acute autophagy response to environmental changes.

Full study here

 

[Dago]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

you mean like when you refused to read the articles posted by SaintsinBucLand? a little hypocritical, no?

(PDF) The effect of fasting or calorie restriction on mitophagy induction: a literature review

PDF | Mitochondrial dysfunction can be a major cause of a wide range of age‐related diseases. Maintaining the normal homeostasis of mitochondria... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Current evidence
overwhelmingly suggests that CR and fasting induce
mitophagy and mitophagy‐related markers. Based on the cur-
rent evidence that we reviewed here, it could be concluded
that fasting or CR has a promising role as a novel, practical ap-
proach without any side effects in the regulation of health by
inducing mitochondria autophagy in different organs of body.

 

[gboudx]

The Science of Fasting

Happened upon this documentary and have worked my way up to being able to fast for 2-3 days out of the week. Initially, it was difficult to get past those 'hunger pangs', but that gets easier as you learn to just fill yourself with water until they go away.I do see the higher energy, better...

saintsreport.com

 

[DaveXA]

The Science of Fasting

Happened upon this documentary and have worked my way up to being able to fast for 2-3 days out of the week. Initially, it was difficult to get past those 'hunger pangs', but that gets easier as you learn to just fill yourself with water until they go away.I do see the higher energy, better...

saintsreport.com

Yeah, I'd say it's gone from fasting/Covid to just a fasting debate. Kind of in the weeds now, so take the debate there at this point.

 

[Arathrael]

The Science of Fasting

Happened upon this documentary and have worked my way up to being able to fast for 2-3 days out of the week. Initially, it was difficult to get past those 'hunger pangs', but that gets easier as you learn to just fill yourself with water until they go away.I do see the higher energy, better...

saintsreport.com

I'm more than happy for the fasting fanatics to take it to the fasting thread.

I'm only replying here so anyone reading this thread knows that while some people think fasting has helped them, other people have found that fasting can worsen the symptoms of long Covid, that there's no sound basis for thinking it's necessary for treating it, and as an approach it should be considered with caution and informed medical advice accordingly.

 

[Arathrael]

you mean like when you refused to read the articles posted by SaintsinBucLand? a little hypocritical, no?

I did read them. I said I wasn't going to go into them, because they weren't actually relevant to the discussion.

And I don't appreciate the repeated passive aggressive attacks coming from you, someone who didn't even read their own links and thought the research for the 2016 Nobel Prize was carried out after 2014 despite their own link to the press release making it clear it was for research done in the nineties.

(PDF) The effect of fasting or calorie restriction on mitophagy induction: a literature review

PDF | Mitochondrial dysfunction can be a major cause of a wide range of age‐related diseases. Maintaining the normal homeostasis of mitochondria... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Current evidence
overwhelmingly suggests that CR and fasting induce
mitophagy and mitophagy‐related markers. Based on the cur-
rent evidence that we reviewed here, it could be concluded
that fasting or CR has a promising role as a novel, practical ap-
proach without any side effects in the regulation of health by
inducing mitochondria autophagy in different organs of body.

Stop cherry picking and actually read your own link, which also states that snacking doesn't prevent autophagy, which was your claim.

However, some studies demonstrated that mitophagy occurred both in fasting and fed state with no significant differences or may be induced in fed state. Study on the muscle tissue of subjects after exercise showed that mitophagy was upregulated in the fed state.​

​

No amount of frantic googling and shifting goalposts is going to change that. Knock it off already.

 

[Dago]

I did read them. I said I wasn't going to go into them, because they weren't actually relevant to the discussion.

And I don't appreciate the repeated passive aggressive attacks coming from you, someone who didn't even read their own links and thought the research for the 2016 Nobel Prize was carried out after 2014 despite their own link to the press release making it clear it was for research done in the nineties.


Stop cherry picking and actually read your own link, which also states that snacking doesn't prevent autophagy, which was your claim.

However, some studies demonstrated that mitophagy occurred both in fasting and fed state with no significant differences or may be induced in fed state. Study on the muscle tissue of subjects after exercise showed that mitophagy was upregulated in the fed state.​

​

No amount of frantic googling and shifting goalposts is going to change that. Knock it off already.

No I said that anything that causes your body to produce insulin or mTOR stops autophogy. The sad part is the biological process I described is in your article and you are too busy acting smug and superior to connect the dots. Does eating affect insulin and mTOR production...yes or no? The answer is yes. Does the presence of insulin and mTOR inhibit autophogy (any autophagy)? Yes

Therefore the two are connected.