Curious as to What Underhill and Triplett Are Saying about Organizational Change (3 Viewers)

[rsmith2783]

He did say those things but he also said that they needed at least one more WR and that the OL was a concern that could derail the entire season. He also expressed concerns that the pass rush still wasn't good enough and that they needed to fix the run defense.

I think he was as shocked as anyone the way the came out the first two games. I'm not sure how you can expect him, or anyone else, to predict that after those first two games things would totally fall apart to the extent that they have. But, he did mention during those first games that they would not continue to blow teams out like they did the first two weeks and would have to prove they were a good team when adversity came. I just don't think it's fair to judge a guy based on a few tweets when he writes thousands of words a week about the team and talks about the team either in pods or on YouTube for another few hours. Those Tweets should not be viewed in isolation.

And, I get that some of the content is behind a paywall, but there is a lot of free content available on YouTube and in podcasts.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt since I'm not a member of his site. He may have said it, but I didn't hear about it. My thing is don't wait until it's too late or too obvious to say something that should have been said.

It seems to be the same script each and every year. Depending on who's hired for the next HC job, I can tell you exactly what the narrative will be. Most of these reporters have stories that build false hope. I've always wondered if that was a motive or incentive from the team. There's an old saying that you can't sprinkle sugar on sheet and expect it to be sweet.

 

[St. Widge]

I'll give the benefit of the doubt since I'm not a member of his site. He may have said it, but I didn't hear about it. My thing is don't wait until it's too late or too obvious to say something that should have been said.

It seems to be the same script each and every year. Depending on who's hired for the next HC job, I can tell you exactly what the narrative will be. Most of these reporters have stories that build false hope. I've always wondered if that was a motive or incentive from the team. There's an old saying that you can't sprinkle sugar on sheet and expect it to be sweet.

I guess I don't see what difference it makes when he says it. He's a sports reporter. Nothing he says is going to change what the team does. I also don't know why people expect sports reporters to temper their excitement for the season or why they would want them to temper their excitement for the season. This is supposed to be entertainment and fun. And the truth is that some teams you expect to be bad surprise you and are good (see 2006 Saints) and some teams you expect to be good are bad.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I just don't see Rizzi as the guy to bring true change. Yes he is energetic and aggressive which is good, but I don't think he's going to bring the level of knowlege and creativity necessary in regard to offensive and defensive scheme. And, it's going to be really hard for him to go out and hire two really good coordinators that will bring modern and inventive schemes. Not sure how many up and comers are going to want to be put in this situation without control over roster moves.

As far as Hodges, as much as I like him as a LB coach and he looks like a guy that could get a shot as a DC soon, he is schooled in the scheme that I want to move away from. I'm not sure if he has a better scheme that he could implement. And, in the end, I just think we need all new voices on the coaching staff.

Also, I feel like the issues that Rizzi had in the GB game with clock management and not knowing the rules make him a bad choice. I just wonder what other rules he doesn't know and an NFL HC just has to be an expert in the rules.

I think there are 5 or 6 guys I would like over Rizzi (Johnson, Coen, Brady, Kingsbury, Glenn, and Flores) so if they all turn the job down I guess Rizzi is an good of an option as most, but I would not have high expectations of him turning things around. But, I would love for him to prove me wrong.

But, if Loomis stays, and I expect his will, I think Aaron Glenn is the most likely guy to get the job. And, in the end, he could be very good. I would just prefer a young OC to get the job.

If Glenn does get the job, you stay w/ the defense we've come to hate, but Glenn has had success w/ it. I think it just boils down to philosophy whether it's defense or offense and who you want to be and this is a team, a city, that thrives on balls to the wall aggressiveness. It's no coincidence we got our 09 title, with a blitz heavy defense and a big play offense. Both take advantage of the domefield advantage and both get the people going.

I mentioned multiple times that DA could have unlocked a better side of himself had he just had a Ron Rivera moment and started to gamble more and be aggressive. He was passsive, right on down to the way he practiced for fear of injury. And it's interesting, the thing you fear or try to avoid the most, is exactly what usually happens.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt since I'm not a member of his site. He may have said it, but I didn't hear about it. My thing is don't wait until it's too late or too obvious to say something that should have been said.

It seems to be the same script each and every year. Depending on who's hired for the next HC job, I can tell you exactly what the narrative will be. Most of these reporters have stories that build false hope. I've always wondered if that was a motive or incentive from the team. There's an old saying that you can't sprinkle sugar on sheet and expect it to be sweet.

By all accounts DA held a tougher TC than he'd done previously, and the guys seemed to respond to it, but then once the season kicked off, they went back to the light practices etc. Some of me feels like this is a byproduct of how DA likes to build teams. Looking at his Raiders history he preferred veteran teams over youth. However, w/ veteran teams, due to age and injury susceptibility, you tend to scale practice back. They know what it takes to get themselves ready, etc you just need to make sure you coach them up on film during the week, and expect them to come out ready to rock and roll. You could tell DA absolutley detested that we had such a young and inexperienced O-line on the edges and he always talked up the veterans on the team.

His philosophy was his undoing. He was inherently passive..all the way down to his reluctance to blitz and preference for dropping 8 in coverage.

 

[MatthewV]

Nick talked extensively about fear the team didn't address OL and WR depth during off-session. He would caveat it with stuff like "maybe Lucas Patrick and Oli Udoh turn out to be our new Hurst/Kelemente who over-performs" or "maybe Cedrick Wilson was just under-utilized" etc. but he said it consistently. Likewise, he mentioned many times wanting fresher legs in backfield given Kendre's lack of availability.

If there was something they were over-enthusiastic about, it was Chase Young.

 

[texasjefe]

I don't recall Hap on TV. I only recall him doing the Point After.

Yes, and so your NOLA TV sportscasters takes about Buddy D and Hap do not come across as authentic compared to guys like RJ, others, plus me who grew up watching Hap on 4, Buddy on 8, and Wayne Mack and Bruce Miller on 6, etc... and Buddy's From The Pressbox.

I like Nick and Trip but I'm not subscribing because I aint listening to them micro-analyze a bad to mediocre football team. I'll listen to Ross and Hendrix from time to time, plus we're all here anyway.

 

[St. Widge]

If Glenn does get the job, you stay w/ the defense we've come to hate, but Glenn has had success w/ it. I think it just boils down to philosophy whether it's defense or offense and who you want to be and this is a team, a city, that thrives on balls to the wall aggressiveness. It's no coincidence we got our 09 title, with a blitz heavy defense and a big play offense. Both take advantage of the domefield advantage and both get the people going.

I mentioned multiple times that DA could have unlocked a better side of himself had he just had a Ron Rivera moment and started to gamble more and be aggressive. He was passsive, right on down to the way he practiced for fear of injury. And it's interesting, the thing you fear or try to avoid the most, is exactly what usually happens.

I'm not enamored with Glenn bringing in the same defense and it's part of why I have him after the OCs. But he has done a good job running it in Detroit and maybe he has some tweaks that do make it work against modern offenses. I do think he will get instant respect from the team as a good former NFL player that has run a good defense in Detriot.

I would just prefer an offensive coach who is going to bring a more aggressive and exciting form of offense and hopefully the same on defense. But Glenn could end up being that guy and he might hire an OC who is that guy.

And there was a time when DA used to blitz out of this scheme, he just seemed to get more and more passive and rely on coverage too much as the years went on. Maybe the pressure of being a HC made him just not want to give up big plays and he lost his aggression?

 

[St. Widge]

Yes, and so your NOLA TV sportscasters takes about Buddy D and Hap do not come across as authentic compared to guys like RJ, others, plus me who grew up watching Hap on 4, Buddy on 8, and Wayne Mack and Bruce Miller on 6, etc... and Buddy's From The Pressbox.

I like Nick and Trip but I'm not subscribing because I aint listening to them micro-analyze a bad to mediocre football team. I'll listen to Ross and Hendrix from time to time, plus we're all here anyway.

And it was never intended to be authentic regarding NOLA TV sportscasters since I was talking about his radio show which I do recall very well.

And I never said you should subscribe to Nick and Trip.

 

[rsmith2783]

I guess I don't see what difference it makes when he says it. He's a sports reporter. Nothing he says is going to change what the team does. I also don't know why people expect sports reporters to temper their excitement for the season or why they would want them to temper their excitement for the season. This is supposed to be entertainment and fun. And the truth is that some teams you expect to be bad surprise you and are good (see 2006 Saints) and some teams you expect to be good are bad.

There's nothing wrong about getting excited regarding the team before the season starts. I remember the excitement around the whole city when Ricky Williams was drafted. No one knew it would turn into a 3-13 year. I don't believe anyone is going to fault you for getting excited. But to report that something is good or be optimistic about, and then report that you knew all along that it was bad is hypocritical.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm not enamored with Glenn bringing in the same defense and it's part of why I have him after the OCs. But he has done a good job running it in Detroit and maybe he has some tweaks that do make it work against modern offenses. I do think he will get instant respect from the team as a good former NFL player that has run a good defense in Detriot.

I would just prefer an offensive coach who is going to bring a more aggressive and exciting form of offense and hopefully the same on defense. But Glenn could end up being that guy and he might hire an OC who is that guy.

And there was a time when DA used to blitz out of this scheme, he just seemed to get more and more passive and rely on coverage too much as the years went on. Maybe the pressure of being a HC made him just not want to give up big plays and he lost his aggression?

Nah, it was who he is naturally. He blitzed when he first took over because the D was so young, once he added a bunch of good players who he is began to shine. Look no further than the Minesotta Miracle. We only rushed 3 on that play, and it forced Sean Payton to think, well if we'd had more passrush there we maybe could have won it, so we drafted Davenport the following year...only for DA to continue w/ more 3 man calls and simulated pressures.

DA was just a think tank...he liked to show things to make the QB guess wrong. The philosophy works to a degree, i mean look at how our turnovers fell off a cliff once we fired him. That was a direct correlation to losing him as the playcaller.

I think the irony in it, is that techincally DA is a branch off the buddy ryan system since he cut his chops under Gregg Williams. You'd think he'd have been a more aggressive playcaller.

 

[St. Widge]

There's nothing wrong about getting excited regarding the team before the season starts. I remember the excitement around the whole city when Ricky Williams was drafted. No one knew it would turn into a 3-13 year. I don't believe anyone is going to fault you for getting excited. But to report that something is good or be optimistic about, and then report that you knew all along that it was bad is hypocritical.

Again, I don't know how you can call it hypocritical when you only accessed a very small portion of what was said.

 

[texasjefe]

In the early-mid 70s, we would call up the radio shows, ask them a question they had to spend 30 seconds rifling through papers researching, and then we would whisper-troll our friends over the dead air.

'psst, hey Bauer, you svck the farts out of dead dogs'

On Saturdays, we would call in and ask Maury Magill for the Slippery Rock score, and that gave us a ton of free air.

 

[rsmith2783]

By all accounts DA held a tougher TC than he'd done previously, and the guys seemed to respond to it, but then once the season kicked off, they went back to the light practices etc. Some of me feels like this is a byproduct of how DA likes to build teams. Looking at his Raiders history he preferred veteran teams over youth. However, w/ veteran teams, due to age and injury susceptibility, you tend to scale practice back. They know what it takes to get themselves ready, etc you just need to make sure you coach them up on film during the week, and expect them to come out ready to rock and roll. You could tell DA absolutley detested that we had such a young and inexperienced O-line on the edges and he always talked up the veterans on the team.

His philosophy was his undoing. He was inherently passive..all the way down to his reluctance to blitz and preference for dropping 8 in coverage.

I give the benefit of the doubt because I didn't pay attention to TC around his tenure. But if scaling back cost him, then I know he regrets it. I aslo personally believe that players didn't respect him. I noticed the body language of the players and at times DA attempted to sound like Payton too much.
I remember Keenan Lewis made a statement awhile back (years before Payton stepped down) saying that DA didn't have the right people skills. Maybe there's some truth to that.

 

[MatthewV]

I remember Keenan Lewis made a statement awhile back (years before Payton stepped down) saying that DA didn't have the right people skills. Maybe there's some truth to that.

Without being unkind or uncharitable, it would be hard to watch DA's press conferences or post-game speeches and not gather immediately that he is not a charismatic leader of men with abnormally high people skills. The way he carried himself also did not match what you tend to see from successful HCs, though obviously there are all sorts of outliers.

SP had obvious flaws and deficiencies too, but he looked and acted like a football coach that people follow into a fight, in the same way Brees carried himself as a platoon leader who'd outwork his own soldiers and put himself first in the line of danger.

One of the things that's been difficult the past couple years is both DA and DC not having personalities that mesh with fan expectations of what they want to see in a team they believe in. Doesn't mean they aren't great people outside of the team or not world-class talented. It's just their affect makes people much harder on them.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I give the benefit of the doubt because I didn't pay attention to TC around his tenure. But if scaling back cost him, then I know he regrets it. I aslo personally believe that players didn't respect him. I noticed the body language of the players and at times DA attempted to sound like Payton too much.
I remember Keenan Lewis made a statement awhile back (years before Payton stepped down) saying that DA didn't have the right people skills. Maybe there's some truth to that.

Yeah I can see it, DA didn’t seem like a personable guy. Appeared more down to business, I have a job to do, you have a job to do. I’ll do mine, I expect you to do yours.

I think that can work for some coaches but I think it helps when you connect w/ people.

He seemed like a guy whose office door was always closed. You only saw him during practices and he wasn’t going to ask how are your wife and kids doing. Wasn’t likely to strike up a convo w/ someone walking by in the hall.

You can tell he put a lot of emphasis on having veteran players in the lockerroom to keep a pulse on it so he didn’t have to develop those relationships

 

[Jd101]

Last time he shifted into high gear y’all hated that too.

It’s almost like it’s hard to win at football when the best QB in league history retires.

Sean payton left when he realized he couldn't win without Drew. The patriots now suck without Brady. So is it management and coaching, or the lack of a franchise QB that determines the fate of a team