dead money kills us again (1 Viewer)

[Judge_Smails]

Because we can't really add enough parts to compete at a Superbowl level and have mortgaged some of our most impactful draft assets?

I think we see things quite similar, I just think it's time to pump hard and recalibrate. I'm very much in favor of a rebuild. I'd rather do that than trick myself in to thinking we will be something we aren't/can't be with the status quo.

I’m not convinced it’s time to rebuild has arrived, but think we’ll all have a pretty clear picture by the end of the season. If they win the division and play well in the post season- then I could never justify blowing things up.

Winning more than you lose and consistently being a playoff team are Very hard things to do in the NFL. Why intentionally tank if you are still there?

That kind of shiz is how you lose fan loyalty and end up with the San Antonio Saints.

 

[NatureBoy]

I’m not convinced time to rebuild has arrived, but think we’ll all have a pretty clear picture by the end of the season. If they win the division and play well in the post season- the I could never justify blowing things up.

Winning more than you lose and consistently being a playoff team are Very hard things to do on the NFL. Why intentionally tank if you are still there?

That kind of shiz is how lose fan loyalty and end up with the San Antonio Saints.

I think what we're doing will lose a fan base. We're running in place, but losing a little more ground every year. Eventually people won't care. I think it's time. Go through a few years of difficulty but provide yourself a light at the end of the tunnel. Even the Falcons get it, they've sold off some big pieces are are loading up on draft capital. They'll be ahead of us in the rebuilding process, unless they squander it, which would be very Falconly of them.

 

[Judge_Smails]

I think what we're doing will lose a fan base. We're running in place, but losing a little more ground every year. Eventually people won't care. I think it's time. Go through a few years of difficulty but provide yourself a light at the end of the tunnel. Even the Falcons get it, they've sold off some big pieces are are loading up on draft capital. They'll be ahead of us in the rebuilding process, unless they squander it, which would be very Falconly of them.

There is still a mega waitlist for one single season ticket, much less two or more together. The Saints still have high TV numbers for local and national/prime time games,

Why? A rabid fan base and more than a decade of exciting and consistently good football.

Intentionally rolling a turd out there to “rebuild “ is dumb to the average fan.

 

[Broad St. Saint]

Winning a garbage division isn’t the goal. The goal is to win the SB.

Atl successfully traded Ryan, Julio Jones, Calvin Ridley, and Deon Jones. That’s 88M in dead money pushed forward or ‘23 cap costs avoided while securing picks and cap space for the future. That’s purposeful dead money. Atl is going the Miami route. I like what they are doing this year for the future.

I don’t like our position for the future.

I for one would like the Saints to win this garbage division, if they are on the ascent, like the Giants in 2011, and peak in February.

 

[Lord Stanley]

You picked out two positions.

The roster is 53. And we’re not going to be paying a QB anywhere near that much.

And once we are, his salary will coincide with a drop at other spots.

Are you joking? Winston’s dead money for next year is $11.2M; he’s proving to be a disaster of a signing as he’s been beaten out by a minimum wage vet.

 

[IceHot]

Correct me where I am wrong (and I am sure I am), but our cap hit primarily effects us in three ways....

A) Ability to retain Free Agents.

For the most part we have done well here. some minor loses here and there in the past 10 years with Trey Hendrickson, Ducey, Marcus Williams, Jimmy Graham, Malcolm Jenkins, Emmanuele Sanders, and a few others. But overall not that bad. The upcoming years seem more worrisome.

B) Ability to trade
Hard to speculate but NFL trades seem iffy at best to me. You might give up 5 players to get Ken Houston or you might be the one wishing you kept Ken Houston.

C) Ability to make big splashes in Free Agency
To me here it seems we have for the most part done nearly as well with our frugal and mediocre purchases as we have with our big splashes with DD and Max Unger being the big exceptions.

Is it really that bad for us if we dont spend too much in FA?

...and this is where my math is probably wrong, but I believe these to be the major FA acquisitions in the past 10 off-seasons with what I think is the average yearly cap hit (roughly, very roughly calculated)....

Position	Player	Avg Cap/yr
DB	Honeybadger	13.5​
LB	Demario Davis	9.0​
OL	Larry Warford	7.0​
DB	Jairus Byrd	6.6​
TE	Jared Cook	6.5​
QB	Jameis Winston	6.3​
OL	Max Unger	5.7​
OL	Ben Grubbs	5.4​
TE	Coby Fleener	5.0​
LB	AJ Klein	4.7​
DB	Marcus Maye	4.5​
DL	Malcolm Brown	4.3​
DB	Malcolm Jenkins	4.2​
WR	Emmanuel Sanders	4.0​
WR	Ted Ginn	3.7​
DB	Kennan Lewis	3.3​
RB	Darren Sproles	3.3​
LB	Curtis Lofton	3.3​
RB	Latvaius Murray	3.0​
WR	Jarvis Landry	3.0​
DL	Broderick Bunkley	2.5​
OL	Jonathan Goodwin	2.3​
DL	Alex Okafor	2.3​
DB	Bradley Roby	2.1​
LB	Kwon Alexander	2.0​
QB	Andy Dalton	2.0​
DB	Eli Apple	1.8​
DL	Nick Fairley	1.8​
TE	Ben Watson	1.8​
LB	Kiko Alonso	1.7​
DL	Paul Kruger	1.6​
LB	Manti Teo	1.6​
DL	Kevin Williams	1.5​
RB	Mark Ingram	1.5​
LB	James Laurinatis	0.9​
OL	Senio Kelemente	0.8​
DB	Kyle Wilson	0.7​

 

[IceHot]

By what metric do you say it's working? We do not have a winning, or even .500, record, don't have a franchise QB, or a #1 pick next year. KC has Mahomes and their cap situation is better.

2024 NFL Team Salary Cap Tracker

A real-time look at the 2024 salary cap totals for each NFL team, including estimated cap space.

www.spotrac.com

Mahomes cap hit extends out to 2031 at $40-50M/yr isnt that the same not yet fully realised problem you are admonishing the Saints for?

 

[Saintcd]

Correct me where I am wrong (and I am sure I am), but our cap hit primarily effects us in three ways....

A) Ability to retain Free Agents.

For the most part we have done well here. some minor loses here and there in the past 10 years with Trey Hendrickson, Ducey, Marcus Williams, Jimmy Graham, Malcolm Jenkins, Emmanuele Sanders, and a few others. But overall not that bad. The upcoming years seem more worrisome.

B) Ability to trade
Hard to speculate but NFL trades seem iffy at best to me. You might give up 5 players to get Ken Houston or you might be the one wishing you kept Ken Houston.

C) Ability to make big splashes in Free Agency
To me here it seems we have for the most part done nearly as well with our frugal and mediocre purchases as we have with our big splashes with DD and Max Unger being the big exceptions.

Is it really that bad for us if we dont spend too much in FA?

...and this is where my math is probably wrong, but I believe these to be the major FA acquisitions in the past 10 off-seasons with what I think is the average yearly cap hit (roughly, very roughly calculated)....

Position	Player	Avg Cap/yr
DB	Honeybadger	13.5​
LB	Demario Davis	9.0​
OL	Larry Warford	7.0​
DB	Jairus Byrd	6.6​
TE	Jared Cook	6.5​
QB	Jameis Winston	6.3​
OL	Max Unger	5.7​
OL	Ben Grubbs	5.4​
TE	Coby Fleener	5.0​
LB	AJ Klein	4.7​
DB	Marcus Maye	4.5​
DL	Malcolm Brown	4.3​
DB	Malcolm Jenkins	4.2​
WR	Emmanuel Sanders	4.0​
WR	Ted Ginn	3.7​
DB	Kennan Lewis	3.3​
RB	Darren Sproles	3.3​
LB	Curtis Lofton	3.3​
RB	Latvaius Murray	3.0​
WR	Jarvis Landry	3.0​
DL	Broderick Bunkley	2.5​
OL	Jonathan Goodwin	2.3​
DL	Alex Okafor	2.3​
DB	Bradley Roby	2.1​
LB	Kwon Alexander	2.0​
QB	Andy Dalton	2.0​
DB	Eli Apple	1.8​
DL	Nick Fairley	1.8​
TE	Ben Watson	1.8​
LB	Kiko Alonso	1.7​
DL	Paul Kruger	1.6​
LB	Manti Teo	1.6​
DL	Kevin Williams	1.5​
RB	Mark Ingram	1.5​
LB	James Laurinatis	0.9​
OL	Senio Kelemente	0.8​
DB	Kyle Wilson	0.7​

Add Armstead, bridgewater and Vonn bell to name a few more just off the top of my head we let go. I’m sure there are more to list.

 

[Saint Spud]

I get the glass is half-empty analogy but let's not pretend we are an elite team this year just because of one dominant game against LV. I think we will have a better view after the Baltimore game. I'm a you are what your record says you are type of person.

There are three elite teams. So did the other 28 non-elite teams also mess up their cap situations? Or is it maybe one of those years where we just have to try to get into the playoffs and see what happens?

 

[Saint Spud]

Are you joking? Winston’s dead money for next year is $11.2M; he’s proving to be a disaster of a signing as he’s been beaten out by a minimum wage vet.

Compare $11.2 million to the rest of the league’s starting QBs and get back to me lol

Not saying it’s a good signing. But it’s also not some cap anvil.

 

[No2DC]

Mahomes cap hit extends out to 2031 at $40-50M/yr isnt that the same not yet fully realised problem you are admonishing the Saints for?

Mahomes is in his prime, and it's 2022 (he really did the chiefs a favor), and he will probably renegotiate to get more money before then. Drew has been gone for almost 2 years, and we don't get rid of his cap hit until after this year.

 

[Lord Stanley]

Compare $11.2 million to the rest of the league’s starting QBs and get back to me lol

Not saying it’s a good signing. But it’s also not some cap anvil.

Got any other 11.2 M backups you can get back to me with?

 

[Eman5805]

According to Underhill we might not have a lot of options to retool next year but thr following year we get to do things to open up space. But he didn’t elaborate. Or maybe he did. I need to finish this episode.

 

[NatureBoy]

There is still a mega waitlist for one single season ticket, much less two or more together. The Saints still have high TV numbers for local and national/prime time games,

Why? A rabid fan base and more than a decade of exciting and consistently good football.

Intentionally rolling a turd out there to “rebuild “ is dumb to the average fan.

I gave up my 2 seats in the Loge this year and they were begging me to come back right before preseason. I think that waiting list is highly exaggerated.

We’re not a dumb fan base. We have seen what a real Super Bowl contender looks like. If the organization defines the plan and executes with a degree of success, I think the majority of hard core fans (who understand football) would get it. All it took was being able to draft Reggie Bush to energize the fan base before. Yeah we were hungry after Katrina, but if we had a shot at a generational player, especially a QB, I think the fans could rally around that.

 

[Goatman Saint]

According to Underhill we might not have a lot of options to retool next year but thr following year we get to do things to open up space. But he didn’t elaborate. Or maybe he did. I need to finish this episode.

That’s the year that Thomas’s monster pay can be gotten rid of and a couple of others