N/S Dirty Birds Could Move On From Cousins Sooner Than Later (4 Viewers)

[SuperSaint]

You never know how an older player is going to respond to recovery from an Achilles, it's rough...

They may have Penix as the starter sooner than they thought...

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

But he didn't make those off schedule throws and he doesn't have good pocket mobility which is essential in the NFL. He's also not particularly accurate other than on deep throws, especially under pressure, and had that made up for by 3 NFL ready WRs including probably the best contested catch guy in the NCAA. You can't just sit in the pocket in the NFL anymore. You have to be able to buy time in the pocket and make throws off schedule. Penix may develop that, but he did not show it in college. He's good with a clean pocket but NFL QBs seldom get a clean pocket and when he did face pressure he did not look good.

I had these opinions on Penix before the Falcons took him so I'm not "doing that". I could be wrong about Penix and I really liked him at first, but I found when I dug deeper he lacks some of the things essential for an NFL QB, pocket mobility and the ability to be accurate under pressure. And, yes, he isn't good on off schedule throws.

Rattler has a better arm, better pocket mobility, is better at off schedule throws, and is probably more accurate at short and medium routes. Penix does throw a better deep ball. Frankly, if you put Rattler on that Washington team in that offense, with those receivers, with that offensive line, against those defenses, he probably looks just as good, if not better than, Penix.

And, I'm not saying that Rattler is sure to be a great or even good QB, but the truth is that IMO Rattler has just as good of a chance to develop as Penix. And neither of them has as good a chance to develop than Daniels or McCarty. And while I'm not a fan of Nix, apparently Sean Payton thinks he's a guy that will develop so I will defer to him.

No dog in this one but imo both will have underwhelming NFL careers. One will be considered a bust as he was a high first pick, the other will just be forgotten.


Hope to be wrong, especially about Rattler.

 

[Day1]

Dirty Birds Could Move On From Cousins Sooner Than Later​

I guess nieces and nephews are next.

 

[jahsoul357]

But he didn't make those off schedule throws and he doesn't have good pocket mobility which is essential in the NFL. He's also not particularly accurate other than on deep throws, especially under pressure, and had that made up for by 3 NFL ready WRs including probably the best contested catch guy in the NCAA. You can't just sit in the pocket in the NFL anymore. You have to be able to buy time in the pocket and make throws off schedule. Penix may develop that, but he did not show it in college. He's good with a clean pocket but NFL QBs seldom get a clean pocket and when he did face pressure he did not look good.

I had these opinions on Penix before the Falcons took him so I'm not "doing that". I could be wrong about Penix and I really liked him at first, but I found when I dug deeper he lacks some of the things essential for an NFL QB, pocket mobility and the ability to be accurate under pressure. And, yes, he isn't good on off schedule throws.

Rattler has a better arm, better pocket mobility, is better at off schedule throws, and is probably more accurate at short and medium routes. Penix does throw a better deep ball. Frankly, if you put Rattler on that Washington team in that offense, with those receivers, with that offensive line, against those defenses, he probably looks just as good, if not better than, Penix.

And, I'm not saying that Rattler is sure to be a great or even good QB, but the truth is that IMO Rattler has just as good of a chance to develop as Penix. And neither of them has as good a chance to develop than Daniels or McCarty. And while I'm not a fan of Nix, apparently Sean Payton thinks he's a guy that will develop so I will defer to him.

Tom Brady explained a lot of what you stated perfectly....



A knock on Penix is he didn't play enough off-schedule. The thing that people ignore is more often that not, he made the right play, right read which negates needing to buy time in the pocket. Ask yourself; in an NFL where majority of the offenses are based on dink and dunk, pitch and catch, throw a pass less that 8 yards to a playmaker in space, why does a QB need to buy time in the pocket? We aren't in an NFL that based on verticality anymore so we aren't looking at QBs needing to operate in an offense where most of the routes are slow developing and over 10 yards. "Buying time" also shows that actual timing in an offense...you know what, another topic for another day. The crazy thing is we always talk about being able to play off-schedule but we never really say much about when those plays are actually tracked and quantified; when tracked, the league leaders ain't who many thing.

And people keeps talking about "3 NFL ready WRs" but it's funny that not a single soul used that as a knock against....nevermind. If you actually look at the places from those 3 "NFL ready WRs," one thing that stands out on all of them is ball placement.

He doesn't lack pocket mobility, because he moves around in the pockets just fine. More often than not, we are looking at or for them escaping the pocket, not playing within it, which Penix does more than most of the QBs drafted. Crazy thing is when scrutinize what he does under pressure but don't scrutinize what others do when playing within the offense.

At this point, we don't know what either will do but again, coming out of college, tape showed what it showed. At the end of the day, time will tell..

 

[St. Widge]

Tom Brady explained a lot of what you stated perfectly....



A knock on Penix is he didn't play enough off-schedule. The thing that people ignore is more often that not, he made the right play, right read which negates needing to buy time in the pocket. Ask yourself; in an NFL where majority of the offenses are based on dink and dunk, pitch and catch, throw a pass less that 8 yards to a playmaker in space, why does a QB need to buy time in the pocket? We aren't in an NFL that based on verticality anymore so we aren't looking at QBs needing to operate in an offense where most of the routes are slow developing and over 10 yards. "Buying time" also shows that actual timing in an offense...you know what, another topic for another day. The crazy thing is we always talk about being able to play off-schedule but we never really say much about when those plays are actually tracked and quantified; when tracked, the league leaders ain't who many thing.

And people keeps talking about "3 NFL ready WRs" but it's funny that not a single soul used that as a knock against....nevermind. If you actually look at the places from those 3 "NFL ready WRs," one thing that stands out on all of them is ball placement.

He doesn't lack pocket mobility, because he moves around in the pockets just fine. More often than not, we are looking at or for them escaping the pocket, not playing within it, which Penix does more than most of the QBs drafted. Crazy thing is when scrutinize what he does under pressure but don't scrutinize what others do when playing within the offense.

At this point, we don't know what either will do but again, coming out of college, tape showed what it showed. At the end of the day, time will tell..

Yeah, all Penix needs to do is suddenly have skills and the ability to read defenses like Tom Brady and he is set.

I kid, but I don't see the pocket mobility with him and I see a guy who is not accurate under pressure. He also tends to hold the ball too long which he could get away with against college defenses, behind a good offensive line, with great receivers, but I dont' think he can get away with that in the NFL because he doesn't have great pocket mobility. He will need to gain Brady and Brees like ability to read defenses and know his offense to get away with it and even Brees had elite pocket mobility. He could develop, but I don't see him ever being more than a mid-level starter at best. But, I think he is more likely to be a low level strater or good backup.

But, sure, time will tell and I could be wrong.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Yeah, don't know and don't care what you are going to do about a $100 million contract is exactly how you run an NFL franchise. Great move indeed.

$100 million is almost chump change for starting QBs these days.

If Penix earns the starting spot, Cousins can hold the clipboard. Or he can wave his NTC if he wants to start again.

The total amount of money the Falcons have committed to the QB position, while large, is not backbreaking and isn't even top 5 I suspect.

 

[The Unrest Cure]

Best friend of mine is a die hard season ticket holding Falcon fan, he hated the draft. Time will tell. He hated the Penix pick most of all and thinks he will bust.

I think there are significant reasons to dislike the pick. But I equally believe there are significant reasons to embrace it. I can see the Falcons' viewpoint as to WHY they made the pick, and if they believe in Penix they would have little choice but to pick him where they did. Frankly, if NFL front offices work from a position of fear - worrying what fans will think, or not drafting because they may bust - they really have little chance of being successful long-term. While picking a QB high after signing an expensive free agent QB seems to be sending a mixed message to fans and the team, that they were able to move past the sunk cost of signing Cousins is brave. If the single most important position in the NFL (QB) is paramount to success, then it would behoove all teams to take as many high quality opportunities to get that player, whichever form that takes. That doesn't mean you need to fill your roster with QBs (you can only play one at a time if one of them isn't Taysom Hill) but look at our QB roster the last few years and wonder if we didn't deprecate the position in the misbelief that our team was good enough without a great QB.

Chances are far greater Penix will bomb than become an all-time great. But the bold attitude the Falcons FO took at least means they don't want to tread water. Contrast that with Dennis Allen's approach the last few years. Tell me who has cause for greater optimism right now?

 

[St. Widge]

$100 million is almost chump change for starting QBs these days.

If Penix earns the starting spot, Cousins can hold the clipboard. Or he can wave his NTC if he wants to start again.

The total amount of money the Falcons have committed to the QB position, while large, is not backbreaking and isn't even top 5 I suspect.

It's not chump change if the guy is sitting on the bench and unhappy about it because they recruited him saying they would go for it with him and then spent the #8 pick on his replacement before he even got to training camp.

And that's $100 million they could have spent building around Penix. It makes zero sense to sign a veteran free agent QB for $50 million guaranteed over 2 years and then spend the #8 pick on developmental QB. And they clearly knew it or they would not have tried to trade back up into the top half of the 1st to get the pass rusher they needed. And even if Cousins waives his no trade, it still hits the cap.

Why are people going through such mental gymnastics trying to say this is a good move that was thought out?

 

[longtime lurker]

Dirty Birds Could Move On From Cousins Sooner Than Later​

I guess nieces and nephews are next.

 

[St. Widge]

I think there are significant reasons to dislike the pick. But I equally believe there are significant reasons to embrace it. I can see the Falcons' viewpoint as to WHY they made the pick, and if they believe in Penix they would have little choice but to pick him where they did. Frankly, if NFL front offices work from a position of fear - worrying what fans will think, or not drafting because they may bust - they really have little chance of being successful long-term. While picking a QB high after signing an expensive free agent QB seems to be sending a mixed message to fans and the team, that they were able to move past the sunk cost of signing Cousins is brave. If the single most important position in the NFL (QB) is paramount to success, then it would behoove all teams to take as many high quality opportunities to get that player, whichever form that takes. That doesn't mean you need to fill your roster with QBs (you can only play one at a time if one of them isn't Taysom Hill) but look at our QB roster the last few years and wonder if we didn't deprecate the position in the misbelief that our team was good enough without a great QB.

Chances are far greater Penix will bomb than become an all-time great. But the bold attitude the Falcons FO took at least means they don't want to tread water. Contrast that with Dennis Allen's approach the last few years. Tell me who has cause for greater optimism right now?

I have no issue with teams taking shots at what they think are franchise QBs, but you don't sign a free agent QB to $100 deal with $50 million guaranteed and then turn around and spend the #8 pick on a QB before he even gets to camp. Either it was dumb to sign Cousins and they should have just taken one of the top QBs in the draft or they should have signed Cousins and built around him to make a run the next two years. As it is, they signed a vet QB but aren't building around him for a run in the next two years, but are thinking about 4 years into the future. The moves don't make sense when made together. It would have made more sense to keep Ridder and then draft a young QB to develop.

 

[St. Geezy]

What a weird situation they’ve gotten themselves into. Anyone trying to convince others or themselves that this is some genius foresight move is fooling themselves. This was one of the dumbest situations I have ever seen a team get themselves into in an off-season. You don’t pay a QB that amount of money without then devoting ALL resources to building a title contender around them.

I could see drafting a mid round QB to groom, or perhaps even trading for a guy like Zach Wilson as a project, but you don’t take a prime real estate top 10 pick to draft another QB when you’ve already committed that amount of money to another.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I think there are significant reasons to dislike the pick. But I equally believe there are significant reasons to embrace it. I can see the Falcons' viewpoint as to WHY they made the pick, and if they believe in Penix they would have little choice but to pick him where they did. Frankly, if NFL front offices work from a position of fear - worrying what fans will think, or not drafting because they may bust - they really have little chance of being successful long-term. While picking a QB high after signing an expensive free agent QB seems to be sending a mixed message to fans and the team, that they were able to move past the sunk cost of signing Cousins is brave. If the single most important position in the NFL (QB) is paramount to success, then it would behoove all teams to take as many high quality opportunities to get that player, whichever form that takes. That doesn't mean you need to fill your roster with QBs (you can only play one at a time if one of them isn't Taysom Hill) but look at our QB roster the last few years and wonder if we didn't deprecate the position in the misbelief that our team was good enough without a great QB.

Chances are far greater Penix will bomb than become an all-time great. But the bold attitude the Falcons FO took at least means they don't want to tread water. Contrast that with Dennis Allen's approach the last few years. Tell me who has cause for greater optimism right now?

Absolutely agree with your post, although I do like what we did (or didn't do) in this draft.


I think Penix will bomb (as I think Rattler will amount to nada) but I do get why they did it.

 

[St. Geezy]

I have no issue with teams taking shots at what they think are franchise QBs, but you don't sign a free agent QB to $100 deal with $50 million guaranteed and then turn around and spend the #8 pick on a QB before he even gets to camp. Either it was dumb to sign Cousins and they should have just taken one of the top QBs in the draft or they should have signed Cousins and built around him to make a run the next two years. As it is, they signed a vet QB but aren't building around him for a run in the next two years, but are thinking about 4 years into the future. The moves don't make sense when made together. It would have made more sense to keep Ridder and then draft a young QB to develop.

This. And resource allocation is just the surface issue. There are some psychological/locker room impacts too.

You’re setting up a potential divide for WHEN, not IF, Cousins has a slump, as all non-elite QBs do. Why put that kind of pressure on your new QB? There will be boo-birds and Penix chants the first time Cousins throws two interceptions in a game they are down in.

 

[jboss]

$100 million is almost chump change for starting QBs these days.

If Penix earns the starting spot, Cousins can hold the clipboard. Or he can wave his NTC if he wants to start again.

The total amount of money the Falcons have committed to the QB position, while large, is not backbreaking and isn't even top 5 I suspect.

$100 mil for a qb now is chump change, $180 mil with almost $100 mil guaranteed and a huge cap hit is not.

Kirk Cousins Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Kirk Cousins contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[BBarnes]

I never thought I'd see so many people on this board glazing Atlanta for what is pretty clearly a terrible decision on the face of it, compounded by the situation they are in. It's not often we get the opportunity to roast our rivals into oblivion, rightfully so, but here we are and there's people like "I'm actually JEALOUS of the Falcons".

Some people (mostly only on here or in Atlanta) really saying he was the best coming out the draft. Dude couldn’t hold a candle to Daniels and I was a fan of Penix.

It wasn’t a bad pick, not at all, but the people claiming Atlanta did some great move for the future is missing that they just did dumb Atlanta things. It may turn out to be a great thing, but you paid Cousins to win now and even talked about making a deep run with him. Then you don’t support him.

They still should win the division with Cousins unless they failed again at hiring a competent head coach.