ESPN.com/nfl poll: Was the bounty scandal blown out of proportion? (2 Viewers)

[andreask]

I don't see how anyone can know whether or not it was overblown until the evidence has been revealed. If it turns out that bonuses were offered for players getting carted off the field or getting hurt or whatever, it wasn't overblown. If it turns out bonuses were offered for making impact plays, like interceptions or big stops or whatever, it definitely was overblown.

Umm, no. If you were either A) not a fan of any NFL team, B) a casual fan, or C), a biased fan of a team other then the Saints...you would take what was put out by the NFL (and promptly shouted from on-high by the majority of the media) and actually believe that the Saints franchise/coaches/players were involved in an elaborate scheme intended to inflict injury on opposing players, game after game, over the past three seasons.

The actual 'evidence' 'proving' that this was the case has been both weak in substantiating these claims, and amazingly lacking in depth. I don't simply accept what the NFL is trying to spoon-feed me regarding what they believe the Saints did, especially in light of the current legal predicament the NFL is in, and will be in for some time, in regards to retired players suing the league due to the long term ill effects of playing the game we all love.

This situation was overblown exactly because the Saints have been condemned by the NFL and in the court of public opinion without having been proven guilty of anything. The Saints have lost their head coach for the season...GM for half the season...assistant head coach for six games....draft picks....fines....player suspensions. For that type of punishment, I expect rock solid proof....I expect the NFL to show their hand. I don't trust the NFL when the NFL tells me 'hey...we've got the goods!' Of course the NFL is a private corporation and doesn't have to disclose everything they 'know'....but as the fans of the game are the public, it is in the NFL's best interest to disclose what they know BEFORE they run over a franchise. This is intrinsic to the American way of life...innocent until PROVEN guilty.

My gut feeling says there was a pay-for-performance culture in-place, and that Gregg Williams used highly questionable language in the locker room in a never ending quest to keep the defense as motivated as possible. I also feel similar language is used in the majority of NFL locker rooms...and cash regularly changes hands between players in the majority of NFL locker rooms.

Finally...if the Saints had a system in place in which the stated and accepted goal included injuring opposing players in order to receive cash rewards....then the defense failed miserably over the past three years because the evidence of this was NOT seen on the field of play. If the effect of such system was not seen on the field, how and why would the system continue? If the system was pay-for-performance instead of pay-to-injure, then why would the Saints be punished to the extent they have been over very small-time salary cap infractions?

Ridiculous and overblown!

 

[SaintsnOhio]

My dislike of the midwest continues to be validated.

What would one expect from a bunch of folks who believe the Big Ten is The Elite Conference?! I'm amazed at Ohio % is right there with Alabama @ Y-58 N-42... Maybe there is a pocket of hope for the midwest! After all OSU is now the OSU Gators! SEC merged into OSU... should be an interesting ride!

 

[PayOrPlay]

Here's a more direct link to the poll results:

Was the bounty scandal blown out of proportion? - Sportsnation - ESPN

I note that Minnesota has 31% "yes" while the "no" votes are only 9% in Louisiana and 22% in Mississippi.

Which proves something about Saints fans vs. Viking fans, not sure exactly what.

And I'm a little disappointed about all those red New England states: you'd think if anyone would understand about technical rulebreaking, it would be Pats fans . . .

 

[Marlboro Man]

Done. 53% yes.

 

[Swampy Saint]

Was "DUH" an option?

 

[otistp]

Umm, no. If you were either A) not a fan of any NFL team, B) a casual fan, or C), a biased fan of a team other then the Saints...you would take what was put out by the NFL (and promptly shouted from on-high by the majority of the media) and actually believe that the Saints franchise/coaches/players were involved in an elaborate scheme intended to inflict injury on opposing players, game after game, over the past three seasons.

The actual 'evidence' 'proving' that this was the case has been both weak in substantiating these claims, and amazingly lacking in depth. I don't simply accept what the NFL is trying to spoon-feed me regarding what they believe the Saints did, especially in light of the current legal predicament the NFL is in, and will be in for some time, in regards to retired players suing the league due to the long term ill effects of playing the game we all love.

This situation was overblown exactly because the Saints have been condemned by the NFL and in the court of public opinion without having been proven guilty of anything. The Saints have lost their head coach for the season...GM for half the season...assistant head coach for six games....draft picks....fines....player suspensions. For that type of punishment, I expect rock solid proof....I expect the NFL to show their hand. I don't trust the NFL when the NFL tells me 'hey...we've got the goods!' Of course the NFL is a private corporation and doesn't have to disclose everything they 'know'....but as the fans of the game are the public, it is in the NFL's best interest to disclose what they know BEFORE they run over a franchise. This is intrinsic to the American way of life...innocent until PROVEN guilty.

My gut feeling says there was a pay-for-performance culture in-place, and that Gregg Williams used highly questionable language in the locker room in a never ending quest to keep the defense as motivated as possible. I also feel similar language is used in the majority of NFL locker rooms...and cash regularly changes hands between players in the majority of NFL locker rooms.

Finally...if the Saints had a system in place in which the stated and accepted goal included injuring opposing players in order to receive cash rewards....then the defense failed miserably over the past three years because the evidence of this was NOT seen on the field of play. If the effect of such system was not seen on the field, how and why would the system continue? If the system was pay-for-performance instead of pay-to-injure, then why would the Saints be punished to the extent they have been over very small-time salary cap infractions?

Ridiculous and overblown!

I agree that the NFL should show whatever evidence they have, provided they can protect the identity of whoever turned in the evidence. I don't think it's fair to the fans of the Saints to ask them to just accept their word for it. As a non-Saints fan, I look at things like the apologies of the coach or whatever and consider that to be a fairly decent admission of guilt.

I think all teams' fans think, for some reason, that the NFL is against their team. I know my fellow Bucs fans do it all the time. From my time reading this board, it seems like you guys have that same attitude, like the NFL had it out for you for transgressions beyond what they are claiming, but if you ask most everyone else, before this, the Saints were (deservedly so) one of the NFL's darlings.

My point was that there's no way to know whether it was overblown or not until the evidence is known. If everything the NFL says is true than everything they've done is fine and their only error was not presenting their evidence.

If this is the NFL's way of cracking down on the bonus system that seems to be common in the NFL, i.e., bonuses for big plays, it's definitely overblown and unfair.

From the perspective of another team's fan. Back in 2009, Dante Wesley of the Panthers put a cheap shot on Clifton Smith and essentially ended Smith's career. If the NFL came out and said the Panthers had a bounty system going, there's no amount of arguing or evidence that could convince me that it wasn't true.

When a Panther fan hears that there was a bounty system in place, they're going to think of the cheap shot Roman Harper put on Steve Smith last year and think, "Oh, that explains that cheap shot." Their mind will be understandably made up. They're not going to need more evidence. Same with Vikings fans who thought the Saints were trying to injure Favre. I'm sure the Falcons fans have some example as well, but they're the Falcons, so who cares.

Josh Freeman has said before and since the bounty scandal that he thought the Saints were taking cheap shots on him. I'm sure that's enough evidence for some Bucs fans. Personally, I want to see proof of its existence and I definitely would were I a Saints fan.

I don't agree that lack of injuries is evidence that it didn't exist. If the policy is in place and the players don't collect on it, it's still a punishable offense. It does lead to a part of the punishment I do think was wrong. No player should have gotten a longer suspension than any coach. Maybe I'm just an idealist, but I think most players would be hesitant to try to injure an opponent when they know the risks that come with playing such a physical game.

I've started to ramble a bit here. I'm not anti-Saints, other than on Sundays, and certainly understand the outrage. I do wish the players hadn't taken such a hard hit unless something ridiculously egregious came up.

Also, love your pug.

 

[reeferboyz]

wow, i mean i know we're are fans of the Saints but damn....people really think that this is ok. There's no proof, no evidences, no anything but words spoken and assumptions. RUMORS! and almost half of the country believes what's happening to us is fair. i mean this is crazy. it really is a guilty until proven innocent society we are living in. and regardless if the information provided checks out or not (which we know will not) the damage has already been done. But when a team actually cheats, Pats, they get a slap on a wrist, they erased actual evidences, and they have the whole thing swept under the rug in a week. boom. forgotten. with this, they are still releasing information that will never check out, constantly degrading our team, and making us look like we are undeserving of our Championship. It's CRAZY...

 

[reeferboyz]

I don't see how anyone can know whether or not it was overblown until the evidence has been revealed. If it turns out that bonuses were offered for players getting carted off the field or getting hurt or whatever, it wasn't overblown. If it turns out bonuses were offered for making impact plays, like interceptions or big stops or whatever, it definitely was overblown.

it's overblown because there were no evidences shown, yet severe punishment was handed out. that's like going to court and saying, 'this dude did the crime cause i said he did' and never presenting any actual evidences to the judge. then the judge sends him to jail with no proof that he commited the crime. how could anyone be convicted without any evidence?? if that's your idea of justice...i dont know what to tell you man. it's messed up what they are doing to our organization. bottom line. whether you're a saints fan or not.

 

[Symbiote]

wow, i mean i know we're are fans of the Saints but damn....people really think that this is ok. There's no proof, no evidences, no anything but words spoken and assumptions. RUMORS! and almost half of the country believes what's happening to us is fair. i mean this is crazy. it really is a guilty until proven innocent society we are living in. and regardless if the information provided checks out or not (which we know will not) the damage has already been done. But when a team actually cheats, Pats, they get a slap on a wrist, they erased actual evidences, and they have the whole thing swept under the rug in a week. boom. forgotten. with this, they are still releasing information that will never check out, constantly degrading our team, and making us look like we are undeserving of our Championship. It's CRAZY...

This is coming from ESPN, the most biased Sports network on the face of the Earth. Should not be a shock to you, they basically brainwash people into thinking Tebow is a great quarterback and the Miami Heat are the greatest thing ever, and not to forget how Tiger Woods is the only important golfer, without caring about the others that have been winning the last few years a lot more than him.

They brainwashed everyone to hate us, not a shock, yet according to them you'd think a Giants/Pats Super Bowl was the greatest thing ever. Take note how they are an eastern based network and how they are very biased and quick to defend eastern teams and act like they are the greatest thing ever (Miami, New York, Boston/New England, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia)

 

[kevinh]

I just wonder why fans of other teams don't think it's suspicious that ESPN or NFLN doesn't ever show any of these so-called bounty hits. Don't you think they would have by now, if they'd taken place?

All they've shown is the legal hit on Warner, and mostly legal hits on Favre. So okay, where are the hits from when we supposedly kept up the program after the '09/'10 season against league wishes? It's sad that the lack of follow up about actual dirty play doesn't set off any alarm bells with other fans.

 

[otistp]

it's overblown because there were no evidences shown, yet severe punishment was handed out. that's like going to court and saying, 'this dude did the crime cause i said he did' and never presenting any actual evidences to the judge. then the judge sends him to jail with no proof that he commited the crime. how could anyone be convicted without any evidence?? if that's your idea of justice...i dont know what to tell you man. it's messed up what they are doing to our organization. bottom line. whether you're a saints fan or not.

Whether it's justice or not is irrelevant. It's not a court of law. It's their prerogative to keep the evidence private or not. That said, I think it's a terrible business decision and a poor way to treat their customers, a very loyal Saints fan base.

 

[otistp]

I just wonder why fans of other teams don't think it's suspicious that ESPN or NFLN doesn't ever show any of these so-called bounty hits. Don't you think they would have by now, if they'd taken place?

The issue isn't illegal hits. The issue is whether money was offered in exchange for injuring an opponent. The player doesn't need to try to collect on that for it to be a pretty bad violation. The player also doesn't need to attempt an illegal hit in order to try to hurt an opponent.

To answer your question, though, I don't think many fans of other teams care what happens. I think some fans will think it's funny that you guys are going through it. I think some fans might be annoyed with Goodell because they think this is one of many examples of him taking the violence out of football. I think some fans don't think about it one way or another because it's not happening to their team.

I think if you expect outrage from other teams' fans, you're going to be disappointed.

 

[AARPSaint]

From the perspective of another team's fan. Back in 2009, Dante Wesley of the Panthers put a cheap shot on Clifton Smith and essentially ended Smith's career. If the NFL came out and said the Panthers had a bounty system going, there's no amount of arguing or evidence that could convince me that it wasn't true.

When a Panther fan hears that there was a bounty system in place, they're going to think of the cheap shot Roman Harper put on Steve Smith last year and think, "Oh, that explains that cheap shot." Their mind will be understandably made up. They're not going to need more evidence. Same with Vikings fans who thought the Saints were trying to injure Favre. I'm sure the Falcons fans have some example as well, but they're the Falcons, so who cares.

I don't know about the Dante Wesley/Clifton Smith situation, but if Harper had really wanted to injure Steve Smith, he could have done it. It was for sure a cheap shot and very stupid but nowhere near an injury producing hit.

 

[otistp]

I'm not sure the policies about posting videos on this forum, so I apologize if this isn't allowed.

Dante Wesley Hits On Clifton Smith on Fair Catch!!! - YouTube

 

[bobad]

Man, we've got Ohio and Pennsylvania on our side. We're going to win this thing.