Homeless situation.... (1 Viewer)

This post is more personal than my work experience and one I really hope Jeff Miller reads. (also very long)

My oldest brother died in June, 2015 at 42 years of age. He was an alcoholic. He was homeless. He was picked up by local police in Dallas for trespassing (or panhandling, I can't remember). After spending the night in jail with no medical detox, he began having DT's and only then were they like "oh we should probably take him to the hospital". He died as a result of that. Would he have survived if they had not thrown a known alcoholic in jail with no medical detox and instead taken him to the hospital first? Too late to ask now. To this day I feel like there is some fault on the police/jail because everyone knows that at his level of alcoholism, you cannot throw them in jail and not have medical detox but that's beside the point.

His story: My biological father was an alcoholic (he wasn't when my mom married him but quickly turned into one) and from the time my brother was a baby, our father verbally and psychologically abused my brother. My mom, who was beat physically by my father (and is one of two memories I have of the man at two years old is of him beating up my mom and me screaming for him to stop), finally had the courage to leave him when I was 2 and my oldest brother was 8.

My mom felt so guilty about the way she allowed my father to treat my brother all those years that she essentially let him do whatever he wanted and he never had consequences or responsibilities. By the end of 5th or 6th grade, she knew he had some issues but never got him psychological help until he was 16 and by then, it was too late. He was not an addict at that time but he got into a lot of trouble and was not doing well in school.

He managed to hold it together, start his own small business and a family at like 22 or 23. He started to lose control and drink when he was kicked out of this church (it was/is a cult and that's a topic for another thread) that he met his wife in because they demanded everyone tithe 10% of their earnings to the church and he was like um no, I can't because I have a new family and am the only one working and was complaining to other "parishioners" about it and they snitched so the church kicked him out. His wife, instead of supporting him, kept attending.

Then my step dad (who was my dad in my eyes because he raised me since I was 3, my brother was 9 and was a phenomenal person) abruptly died on a business trip in Florida. It was then that his drinking went full-tilt. His wife left him because he was no longer holding down a job and spending their money on booze and also not taking care of the kids while she was at work because he was either drunk or passed out. I can't blame her.

After she left, he rented rooms from various people and job hopped. He then met some lady who was also an alcoholic that was like 20 years his senior who lived on a small trust left to her by her parents which her sisters managed because they wanted to ensure she had housing and was taken care of and didn't blow all of her money on booze. That's when my brother's drinking got realllllly out of control because he no longer needed to hold down a job, even temporary jobs, to pay rent.

After a year or so shacked up with this chick, she got her 3rd DUI and had to serve serious jail time (due to all the prior offenses - I think a couple years) so her sisters ended her lease and my brother had nowhere to go (he had burned bridges with all family members who had tried helping him before) and his alcoholism was out of control. He then moved into his jeep. Then he got a DUI himself, had no money to pay bail and spent like 3 months in jail and by the time he got out, had no way of getting his car out of impound and ended up on the streets.

After he died, I was a wreck. I had not spoken to him in years and the last time (prior to visiting him in the hospital on his death bed) I saw him, I cussed him out in my mom's kitchen because he was hammered and made some inappropriate remark to me in front of my entire family. I had so much guilt because many family members had offered or actually helped him(tried anyway) but I never did because I was so angry with him over his drinking and abandoning his familial responsibilities and wanted him to just pull himself up by the bootstraps.

One day a few weeks after he died, I was having a meltdown in my office and my best friend (who also worked with me) happened to show up to our building that day and stop by my office in the middle of my meltdown. I was lamenting to her all the guilt I had for not helping him. She said to me "Ang, he lost a battle he never had a chance at winning and you certainly do not possess the professional skills needed to help him nor do you or your family have the financial resources needed that would have provided him with the level of help he needed. Don't beat yourself up."

It was then that I really realized she was absolutely correct. So Jeff, while I hear you about choices and to some extent agree, I'd venture to say most homeless people with substance abuse issues do not have the tool kits to be able to to make those good choices. My brother certainly did not and that was established in childhood - as is likely the case with most of these other folks. That's not to say there aren't outliers who overcome the odds somehow.

What are we to do now that these people are adults? Turn our backs against the most vulnerable in society because of choices? Id like to think that as a communal society (which is what we *should* be - nobody can succeed totally by themselves in any situation) that we don't turn our backs on people. Can I personally fix mentally ill or addicted persons? No. But I believe that our society has the financial and human resources to do so.

Another poster said it best. We keep trying things we have always done and it's still not working. It's time to re-imagine the way we help these folks. One of the most detrimental impacts was the decentralization of mental health back in the 80's.
that was an amazing read
thank you for sharing
 
Thanks brother for getting in the discussion.

Sister ....but you're welcome :)

Some of the people in here preaching from their ivory towers are really incredible to me. I'm very thankful for the job I had and my own personal experiences for providing me with some clarity, real perspective and empathy because I probably sounded a lot like them and through my work, helped me understand my own brother's situation from a more logical perspective rather than a perspective clouded by my emotions.

We are all one life tragedy away from becoming addicts or homeless/housing insecure or any number of things we swore we'd never do or end up being. Life has a funny way of humbling some folks sometimes.
 
Also, the homeless do not generally go around assaulting regular folks. Most assaults are among themselves and they are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime from a regular citizen than a perpetrator.

I live in San Diego. We have a very large homeless population. My neighborhood is very popular for them due to its proximity to Balboa Park. I run through the city streets and through Balboa park in the day, night, morning, etc. and have never had any issues with any of them saying anything to me, approaching me or anything even close. Not even the schizophrenic ones shouting and cursing in the wind at imaginary beings. In fact, two of them invited me to smoke weed with them one morning in an alley parking lot on my way to an early morning yoga class.
 
Also, the homeless do not generally go around assaulting regular folks. Most assaults are among themselves and they are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime from a regular citizen than a perpetrator.

I live in San Diego. We have a very large homeless population. My neighborhood is very popular for them due to its proximity to Balboa Park. I run through the city streets and through Balboa park in the day, night, morning, etc. and have never had any issues with any of them saying anything to me, approaching me or anything even close. Not even the schizophrenic ones shouting and cursing in the wind at imaginary beings. In fact, two of them invited me to smoke weed with them one morning in an alley parking lot on my way to an early morning yoga class.
So, how did being stoned at yoga turn out? ?
 
Sister ....but you're welcome :)

Some of the people in here preaching from their ivory towers are really incredible to me. I'm very thankful for the job I had and my own personal experiences for providing me with some clarity, real perspective and empathy because I probably sounded a lot like them and through my work, helped me understand my own brother's situation from a more logical perspective rather than a perspective clouded by my emotions.

We are all one life tragedy away from becoming addicts or homeless/housing insecure or any number of things we swore we'd never do or end up being. Life has a funny way of humbling some folks sometimes.


Yeah I do think the older people get we do get wiser.

empathy was a tough one for me to figure out in my youth. I guess the Superman complex I had sure did not help any.

Most humans are really only one true mistake or sickness from total failure. Starting my own business helped me learn that. I am thankful I did not have to burn my hand on the stove to learn that the hard way.

Yeah and I do think what would help more people would if they did not feel so isolated or alone. A simple conversation I do think does a ton of good. I talk to everyone all day I don't care if you are filthy rich or filthy with a cardboard sign.

I get up every day to learn something and you can learn from anyone.

This is an article about Rebecca twig she is the most successful american female cyclist. She is not a drug addict and homeless.

Good read.

 
I've been lurking around this thread for days and debated if I wanted to actually participate.

I previously (until last year), for 6 years, was a data analyst supporting an inpatient and outpatient multi-disciplinary care (physicians, nurses, dieticians, social workers, psychiatrists, and health promoters) program for the un & underserved population. In plain English this means poor, un or under-insured, chronically ill patients - the large majority homeless or housing insecure. I have analyzed the data and I have shadowed the clinicians on home visits and spent days in the clinics in order to understand the operations in order to best determine how to build out health information systems to capture meaningful data to drive better patient care and outcomes. I have perspective from the back end of this as well as seeing first hand how these people live and hear about what they are going through.

One of the biggest issues faced in attempting to gain control of their chronic conditions was housing insecurity and homelessness. The majority of the chronically ill were diabetics and they had no refrigerator to store their insulin in and generally speaking in regards to other medications that they'd get at the hospital and put in their backpacks (that we would provide for them), they never lasted because on the streets and in shelters, your backpacks and belongings are constantly stolen or thrown away if you step away from them for too long and you have no house, car,or reliable people surrounding you to look after it for you.

What happens when people who are chronically ill begin to start feeling really bad because they don't have their prescription medications? They start using illegal substances or drinking again. Then after a couple weeks of not having their prescriptions, some serious health event happens and they are taken back to the ER for uncompensated care.

In reality, these people need inpatient rehab and/or mental health residence to go get sorted out and detox, etc. That's the first step. The next step is some place to go when they are finished with treatment (for those who won't be staying permanently in the psych hospital). If they have no place to go, this cycle repeats itself until the patient dies most of the time.

Only after the inpatient care and rehab (for those with substance abuse and mental health issues) can you begin to think about work farms and other such things. You can't send an addict or mentally ill person to a work farm (or any other work program) until they are sober and have the tools to function in society. It's also unreasonable to expect that these same sub-population would be able to flourish at any rate we would deem a success in one of those tiered programs where they work up to being given permanent housing while simultaneously having to deal with addiction or severe mental health (or both) in an outpatient/non-residential setting. You have to address the underlying issues first.

I've seen it first hand. I've studied the data. I know what works and what doesn't with this particular group of the homeless - and I recognize that my post does not address all the various types of homeless characteristics.

My next point I'll make in a separate post as this one is already quite long.
I upvoted this yesterday, but didn't know how I felt about responding. It's so real and personally vulnerable, and impactful to anyone with even a tiny shred of human empathy crawling around somewhere in their brain. Just...thank you for being willing to share this with us.
 
I upvoted this yesterday, but didn't know how I felt about responding. It's so real and personally vulnerable, and impactful to anyone with even a tiny shred of human empathy crawling around somewhere in their brain. Just...thank you for being willing to share this with us.
I was going to say ‘it’s like an entire Bukowski novella in post form’ which could have been seen as just a toss off
But I mean it as a positive for both - insightful, clear eyed, real
 
This post is more personal than my work experience and one I really hope Jeff Miller reads. (also very long)

My oldest brother died in June, 2015 at 42 years of age. He was an alcoholic. He was homeless. He was picked up by local police in Dallas for trespassing (or panhandling, I can't remember). After spending the night in jail with no medical detox, he began having DT's and only then were they like "oh we should probably take him to the hospital". He died as a result of that. Would he have survived if they had not thrown a known alcoholic in jail with no medical detox and instead taken him to the hospital first? Too late to ask now. To this day I feel like there is some fault on the police/jail because everyone knows that at his level of alcoholism, you cannot throw them in jail and not have medical detox but that's beside the point.

His story: My biological father was an alcoholic (he wasn't when my mom married him but quickly turned into one) and from the time my brother was a baby, our father verbally and psychologically abused my brother. My mom, who was beat physically by my father (and is one of two memories I have of the man at two years old is of him beating up my mom and me screaming for him to stop), finally had the courage to leave him when I was 2 and my oldest brother was 8.

My mom felt so guilty about the way she allowed my father to treat my brother all those years that she essentially let him do whatever he wanted and he never had consequences or responsibilities. By the end of 5th or 6th grade, she knew he had some issues but never got him psychological help until he was 16 and by then, it was too late. He was not an addict at that time but he got into a lot of trouble and was not doing well in school.

He managed to hold it together, start his own small business and a family at like 22 or 23. He started to lose control and drink when he was kicked out of this church (it was/is a cult and that's a topic for another thread) that he met his wife in because they demanded everyone tithe 10% of their earnings to the church and he was like um no, I can't because I have a new family and am the only one working and was complaining to other "parishioners" about it and they snitched so the church kicked him out. His wife, instead of supporting him, kept attending.

Then my step dad (who was my dad in my eyes because he raised me since I was 3, my brother was 9 and was a phenomenal person) abruptly died on a business trip in Florida. It was then that his drinking went full-tilt. His wife left him because he was no longer holding down a job and spending their money on booze and also not taking care of the kids while she was at work because he was either drunk or passed out. I can't blame her.

After she left, he rented rooms from various people and job hopped. He then met some lady who was also an alcoholic that was like 20 years his senior who lived on a small trust left to her by her parents which her sisters managed because they wanted to ensure she had housing and was taken care of and didn't blow all of her money on booze. That's when my brother's drinking got realllllly out of control because he no longer needed to hold down a job, even temporary jobs, to pay rent.

After a year or so shacked up with this chick, she got her 3rd DUI and had to serve serious jail time (due to all the prior offenses - I think a couple years) so her sisters ended her lease and my brother had nowhere to go (he had burned bridges with all family members who had tried helping him before) and his alcoholism was out of control. He then moved into his jeep. Then he got a DUI himself, had no money to pay bail and spent like 3 months in jail and by the time he got out, had no way of getting his car out of impound and ended up on the streets.

After he died, I was a wreck. I had not spoken to him in years and the last time (prior to visiting him in the hospital on his death bed) I saw him, I cussed him out in my mom's kitchen because he was hammered and made some inappropriate remark to me in front of my entire family. I had so much guilt because many family members had offered or actually helped him(tried anyway) but I never did because I was so angry with him over his drinking and abandoning his familial responsibilities and wanted him to just pull himself up by the bootstraps.

One day a few weeks after he died, I was having a meltdown in my office and my best friend (who also worked with me) happened to show up to our building that day and stop by my office in the middle of my meltdown. I was lamenting to her all the guilt I had for not helping him. She said to me "Ang, he lost a battle he never had a chance at winning and you certainly do not possess the professional skills needed to help him nor do you or your family have the financial resources needed that would have provided him with the level of help he needed. Don't beat yourself up."

It was then that I really realized she was absolutely correct. So Jeff, while I hear you about choices and to some extent agree, I'd venture to say most homeless people with substance abuse issues do not have the tool kits to be able to to make those good choices. My brother certainly did not and that was established in childhood - as is likely the case with most of these other folks. That's not to say there aren't outliers who overcome the odds somehow.

What are we to do now that these people are adults? Turn our backs against the most vulnerable in society because of choices? Id like to think that as a communal society (which is what we *should* be - nobody can succeed totally by themselves in any situation) that we don't turn our backs on people. Can I personally fix mentally ill or addicted persons? No. But I believe that our society has the financial and human resources to do so.

Another poster said it best. We keep trying things we have always done and it's still not working. It's time to re-imagine the way we help these folks. One of the most detrimental impacts was the decentralization of mental health back in the 80's.

“When a flower doesn’t bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower.”

― Alexander Den Heijer

This reminds me so much of the above quote. We are taught very young in this country that success is solely a product of our will power. So much so that many who are moderately successful and stable view it as the lifeblood of their worth. I know I did for a long time. I am learning that all the gold and all the toys mean nothing ultimately. I get much more satisfaction from helping someone than I ever did making a paycheck.

FWIW, my own story is much like yours except it was my sister. I guess she got lucky to just wind up in prison and learn that she didn't have it as bad as she thought. She's changed enough that the family can tolerate her now.
 
“When a flower doesn’t bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower.”

― Alexander Den Heijer

This reminds me so much of the above quote. We are taught very young in this country that success is solely a product of our will power. So much so that many who are moderately successful and stable view it as the lifeblood of their worth. I know I did for a long time. I am learning that all the gold and all the toys mean nothing ultimately. I get much more satisfaction from helping someone than I ever did making a paycheck.

FWIW, my own story is much like yours except it was my sister. I guess she got lucky to just wind up in prison and learn that she didn't have it as bad as she thought. She's changed enough that the family can tolerate her now.
I’ve argued before that ‘we’ have a real fetish for punishment
This works best if we believe that there are good people and bad people
I get that we built fictions and mythos aroun this notion for lack of better explanation
But discoveries in genetics and brain chemistry indicate that this narrative is at least overly simplistic if not completely false

I think it behooves all of us to let go of our fairytales and deal with people as people and not pat fictions
 
I’ve argued before that ‘we’ have a real fetish for punishment
This works best if we believe that there are good people and bad people
I get that we built fictions and mythos aroun this notion for lack of better explanation
But discoveries in genetics and brain chemistry indicate that this narrative is at least overly simplistic if not completely false

I think it behooves all of us to let go of our fairytales and deal with people as people and not pat fictions
I think its also worth pointing out that many pride themselves as Christians and good people. Well, Jesus didn't check peoples circumstances when handing out loaves and fish. He just did good.

I'm irritated by the notion that someone can only be charitable once per week in Church. After that, it seems many can feel free to look down on those judged to be less worthy because of personal distaste for them.

God said it is not up to us to judge others. It's up to us to follow his commands. I missed the one that says to hold others to a standard dictated by wealthy elites who don't want to pay taxes or living wages.
 
the issue with the mentally ill or disabled is so difficult.

if you force them to get treatment, you infringe on their rights. if you don't, in many cases they are incapable of taking care of themselves.

while the documentary could have been better overall, watch Only God Knows Where I Am on Netflix
 
Also, the homeless do not generally go around assaulting regular folks. Most assaults are among themselves and they are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime from a regular citizen than a perpetrator.

my wife was spit on by a vagrant because she didn't give a cigarette. a vagrant spit in the mouth of a co-worker of mine. a vagrant thew a bag of fecese into our reception area. I've seen betters kick cars, vandalize home in areas that had their shanty towns removed. Women have been assaulted in park that are now known as rape trails. You can't walk the streets of portland without eventually seeing some one sturng out yelling profanity and threats in every direction.

you assumption might have been true in the past, but things are changing. The drug addicts are acting crazier because no even bothers enforce any laws against them, and pandhandlers are getting more aggressive.
 
I think its also worth pointing out that many pride themselves as Christians and good people. Well, Jesus didn't check peoples circumstances when handing out loaves and fish. He just did good.

I'm irritated by the notion that someone can only be charitable once per week in Church. After that, it seems many can feel free to look down on those judged to be less worthy because of personal distaste for them.

God said it is not up to us to judge others. It's up to us to follow his commands. I missed the one that says to hold others to a standard dictated by wealthy elites who don't want to pay taxes or living wages.

i think i prefer the god that flooded the earth instead.
 

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