How Absurd Is A 40 Yard Dash Time? (2 Viewers)

[xardoz]

I wish they would run it in pads so we could see a more accurate representation of "game speed".

 

[wbbigtymer]

.2 seconds over 40 yards does NOT equal .4 seconds over 80 yards. There's a simple concept here called acceleration! You don't start out running the 40 at full speed. Acceleration is more important in football than top speed. .2 seconds that may separate someone from someone else in 40 yards could end up being a lot more or a lot less than .4 seconds. It depends on a lot of factors.

 

[birdog]

>>Okay, so I hearing all these "draft guys" talking about how Daymeion Hughes is the most polished cornerback in the draft, but, he can't be a 1st round pick because he ran a 4.6 40 yard dash time. My question is, what separates 4.4 from 4.6? The answer is (.2) seconds over 40 yards. Or (.4) seconds over 80 yards. So you're telling me that the best cornerback in the draft can't be the highest picked, or even within the group of the highest picked because over 80 yards, he's less than a half-a-second slower than the faster yet less skilled corner standing next to him? Marques Colston ran a 4.5. He was pretty productive. Anquan Boldin ran a 4.7. He's been pretty productive as well. And there are a ton of fast guys playing Arena ball or sitting on their couch because every year because teams get infatuated with "speed" guys instead of football players. I wouldn't mind one bit if Hughes was the pick in the first for the Saints. Not at all.

Then again, if you do the math, you would see that it's possible in a head to head race (not that that necessarily happens in football often), the difference between .2 seconds is slightly under 2 yards. 2 yards can be separation if someone is hit in stride.

That is correct, TPS! Besides, slower guys can very well be first rd picks for teams who employ the cover_2. The scheme makes all the difference in the world! A team like the Saints will take speed into consideration, seeing their CB F Thomas struggle with fast and bigger WRs, but a team like the Colts would not have a problem with that, having FS help over the top constantly in the cover_2

 

[St. Geezy]

The misconception about 40 times is that it is not so much a measure of "speed," but more of a measure of acceleration.

Anyone who has ever played football would know that very rarely do you ever get an oppurtunity to reach your full speed because a football field is like an obstacle course and like many others have stated, your gear does not allow you to reach your maximum speed as well.

If scouts were interested in a person's "speed" they would have them run a 100-yard sprint. This is why they do shuttle drills and 3-cone drills. Its all about your stop and start ability in football.

.2 in the 40 is HUGE when talking about cornerbacks. The biggest attribute for cornerbacks is their ability to stop and start or "flip their hips" to turn and run. How fast you accelerate is the difference between being a good cornerback and average cornerback. If a guy that runs a 4.6 has to turn and run with a guy that runs a 4.3, the 4.3 guy is going to reach his maximum acceleration much quicker and the 4.6 guy is toast.

I noticed you have named WRs who have run slow 40s but how many corners have run slow 40s? You can not compare the two because the WR knows where he is going and it is more about route-running, leaping ability, and pure football smarts for them.

Hughes will be drafted by a cover 2 team like Chicago, Indy, or Tampa where he can sit in zone and rely more on his natural instincts. He would not be a good pick for the Saints because his 4.6 40 shows that he can not accelerate quickly to play our man schemes. The Saints play more man than just about every team in the league. He is not a good fit for them for this reason.

 

[scott52]

since when do players race in football?
since when is every pass route a fly route?



40 times are overrated..i agree they should be looked at but, they are waaay too much of an indicator on draft day


being a corner is abut recognizing routes not just keeping up with a reciever

 

[scott52]

.2 in the 40 is HUGE when talking about cornerbacks. The biggest attribute for cornerbacks is their ability to stop and start or "flip their hips" to turn and run. How fast you accelerate is the difference between being a good cornerback and average cornerback. If a guy that runs a 4.6 has to turn and run with a guy that runs a 4.3, the 4.3 guy is going to reach his maximum acceleration much quicker and the 4.6 guy is toast.

I noticed you have named WRs who have run slow 40s but how many corners have run slow 40s? You can not compare the two because the WR knows where he is going and it is more about route-running, leaping ability, and pure football smarts for them.

i disagree...you have to be smart to play corner. The common misconception about defense is the its just tackling and covering. It's not. I believe it takes more smarts to play corner than WR. Corners must have the ability to recognize routes. It isnt always 1 on 1 deep routes being ran.

 

[St. Geezy]

i disagree...you have to be smart to play corner. The common misconception about defense is the its just tackling and covering. It's not. I believe it takes more smarts to play corner than WR. Corners must have the ability to recognize routes. It isnt always 1 on 1 deep routes being ran.

Whoever said I was only referring to deep routes.

Of course I am not indicating you dont have to have smarts to play corner. But if a 4.3 guy runs an out and up on a 4.6 guy, he is in deep trouble...especially in today's era of illegal contact rules.

Same thing with slants. If a 4.6 corner is playing off and a 4.3 guy runs a deep slant, there is nothing he can do to accelerate quick enough.

There arent many if any corners that play man schemes that run a 4.6. They are cover 2 guys who can rely on their smarts.

 

[St. Geezy]

since when do players race in football?
since when is every pass route a fly route?



40 times are overrated..i agree they should be looked at but, they are waaay too much of an indicator on draft day


being a corner is abut recognizing routes not just keeping up with a reciever

Well they've done the test for decades now. If it was absurd and didnt mean anything then they would not do it.

Playing corner is not all about recognizing routes. That's just half the battle.

 

[St. David]

I look for a few things over the 40 time and they are:
20-Yd time
3 cone drill
Broad Jump


Hughes didn't do any of these at the combine and that tells me that he would have performed poorly on these drills. AT his pro day he did this 7.03 three-cone drill. He did not do any jumps. he also had a 2.36 20 yard shuttle.


compair that to Marcus McCauley
20-Yd time 2.17
3 cone drill 6.61
Broad Jump 36"

http://www.thehogs.net/Draft/combine/2007-combine-results-defense.php

 

[Saints Fan in A]

I look for a few things over the 40 time and they are:
20-Yd time
3 cone drill
Broad Jump


Hughes didn't do any of these at the combine and that tells me that he would have performed poorly on these drills. AT his pro day he did this 7.03 three-cone drill. He did not do any jumps. he also had a 4.36 20 yard shuttle.


compair that to Marcus McCauley
20-Yd time 4.17
3 cone drill 6.61
Broad Jump 36"

http://www.thehogs.net/Draft/combine/2007-combine-results-defense.php

That's funny cause by most accounts, McCauley had a horrible year, getting benched on a losing team yet Hughes won Pac-10 Defensive Player of the Year. If both are there, I take Hughes.

 

[shrike3000]

being a corner is abut recognizing routes not just keeping up with a reciever

Yeah, as long as the CB recognizes the route that beat him as he is lagging behind by 10 yards you are good.

40 Yards are overrated but far from useless. You cannot simply ignore it when a CB runs a 4.6, especially if you play lots of Man coverage.

 

[St. David]

That's funny cause by most accounts, McCauley had a horrible year, getting benched on a losing team yet Hughes won Pac-10 Defensive Player of the Year. If both are there, I take Hughes.

im not making a case for one or the other just pointing out drills that are more important then the 40. I think theirs better players then both of them. McCauley has issues with confidence and Hughes has physical limitations that restrict his ability. I think guys like Jonathan Wade, Eric Wright and a saftey like Sabby Piscitelli don't get nearly the pub they should and will in the future.

 

[jesusfish]

It's not absurd at all. It's absurd if you put all your stock in it, like it would be to put all your stock in game film or interviews or the bench press. But to present an unbiased test of speed that can be used to compare every player across the draft board is a very useful technique. For every Anquan Boldin or Chad Johnson who breaks the rules, there are 20 guys who set the rule.

Personnel evaluators just have to use the 40 time as a piece of information with which to build an overall assessment of a player. And I think that's how most of them do use it.

 

[LtAldoRaine]

Hughes ran a 4.60 and a 4.72.

A 4.72? At 5'10, 190 we know his size / weight isn't going to help him considerably in the NFL, and he clearly lacks speed and acceleration by having a 4.43 20 yard shuttle, and a 7.28 3 Cone drill. He ran the 10 yard dash in 1.55. He repped 225 16 times.

Lets compare these numbers to other high profile CBs.

Chris Houston ran a 4.30 and a 4.39.

At 5'10, 185 his size / weight is pretty much ideal (As is Hughes), and won't help / hinder him in the NFL. He ran a 4.12 20 yard shuttle, and a 6.94 3 Cone drill. He ran the 10 yard dash in 1.50 and repped 225 27 times.

So lets compare him to a 'slower' cornerback.

Aaron Ross ran a 4.42 and a 4.48.

At 6'1, 193 lbs his size / weight will help him in the NFL. He is as tall as, if not taller than many NFL receivers. He ran a 4.15 20 yard shuttle, and a 6.72 3 Cone Drill. He ran the 10 yard dash in 1.50 and repped 225 17 times.

Rashard Anderson ran a 4.59.

At 6'2, 206 lbs his size / weight will help him in the NFL. He ran a 4.15 20 yard shuttle, 7.18 3 cone drill, and a 1.58 10 yard dash. He did not bench press.

What I am trying to say is, Daymeion Hughes' speed (or lack thereof) does hurt him in the draft, clearly. His size is not helping, and his clear lack of acceleration is also not helping. Like it or not, the 40 yard dash, 3 cone drill, and 20 yard shuttle are pretty important factors in scouts determining a players speed and agility, and rightly so. You can get at least a feel and compare the player to other players of his position, and even other positions by comparing these statistics.

How a player performs in game is different though, right?

Is a WR who runs a 4.38 40, a 4.15 20 yard shuttle, and a 6.72 3 cone drill going to be able to burn a CB who runs a 4.72 40, a 4.43 20 yard shuttle, and a 7.28 3 cone drill? In virtually every situation in man coverage. Man on man the WR can run a post and leave the CB in the dust. He can run a stop and go and burn the CB.

In zone coverage the slower CB has a chance, but not in man.

Sorry if anything is confusing, I'm kind of tired and out of it right now, lol.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Aaron Ross stands out as a physicl specimen. Speed is good, the 3 cone is better because it shows that stop start and side to side ability which is just as, if not more important in a CB. We all remember Michael Hawthorne right. Dude could not turn his hips and go if is life depended on it. Yes he had great inline speed, but didn't have that lateral and body turn movement.
If a CB was a tad slower, but got up to speed quickly and could twist and move on his hips I don't think the lack of speed would hurt so much.
Remember also, play reaction speed is just as important. That is where Sammy Knight always excelled. He knew what the WR was going to do seemingly before he did it. Some guys have that knack, and it can make up for lack of speed also.