How long should a successful rebuild take? (1 Viewer)

[Clintonrebel]

Nothing about 2023 & the current Broncos season remotely compares w/the travails of the Saints 2005 season?
DEN has never played a home game not in Mile High, they had training camp in their own facility(much less in another state), none of the players/coaches family were spread all across the country, their home opener wasn't played on the "visiting" teams field, their fans were able to attend every home game, staff that was completely overwhelmed/disheartened(& it showed) & a very real possibility of a permanent move out of state w/a new owner!
How exactly are they even similar?

you think I forgot about Katrina? Come on man. No team or fan base ever went through something that bad. That said, the Saints were on a one year losing season streak going into 06. Broncos are riding a streak of 7 straight.

 

[bayoumilitia]

Depends who is orchestrating it…

This would be the key component of any rebuild. Who’s the person actually in charge of the rebuild.

We have seen it throughout the NFL, sometimes ownership (Jerry Jones/Shahid Khan/Woody Johnson) get overly involved in the composition of the coaching staff or the team.

It really just depends on what direction Mrs Gayle wants the organization to go or to be. Would she like us to rebuild around what limited talent we have on offense/defense, through the development of draft picks? If so do we want to bring in an offensive or defensive head coach? Do we give that coach the capability to bring in and develop players for his system or want him to cater to the players on the roster and incorporate a system to fit the current roster, and use FA and the draft to find players that excel in that system.

It can be done within 2-3 years in my opinion which seems to be the consensus on the board. I think a lot depends on the culture that is established. Unfortunately I don’t believe that we have a “winning” culture in the building anymore. So that has to be established again by whoever we hire.

I know that I might be the outlier here and I’ll get plenty of for saying this but in my opinion I still think Mickey, Dennis Lauscha, and Greg Bensel need to go. Maybe give Khai Harley a run at the GM or even offer Drew Brees (sorta like a John Lynch). I truly believe that if Sean Payton felt like he could have built a championship winning team with our current leadership then he would have came back here after his stint at FOX instead of requesting a trade.

Of the 31 other teams I’m not sure how many are currently looking for or will be looking for a GM but if Mrs Gayle parted ways with ML, tell me exactly how many of those teams would actually hire ML?

 

[Saint KayBee]

you think I forgot about Katrina? Come on man. No team or fan base ever went through something that bad. That said, the Saints were on a one year losing season streak going into 06. Broncos are riding a streak of 7 straight.

Nobody is talking about the Broncos as being contenders, though.

The AFC still runs through their division rival - and the Bills, Ravens, and Texans are all considered a clear head above.

If the goal of a rebuild is to become a contenders, it’s still left to be proven that the Broncos are there. They’ve done well at the blend of talent acquisition, injury mitigation, and coaching - now they’ve gotta do it in the playoffs.

 

[Bill]

The key is loading up on good (cheap) talent.....

Obviously Loomis doesn’t know where the good thrift stores are.

 

[Bill]

Nobody is talking about the Broncos as being contenders, though.

The AFC still runs through their division rival - and the Bills, Ravens, and Texans are all considered a clear head above.

If the goal of a rebuild is to become a contenders, it’s still left to be proven that the Broncos are there. They’ve done well at the blend of talent acquisition, injury mitigation, and coaching - now they’ve gotta do it in the playoffs.

Too bad that Allen couldn’t get in three years where Sean is now in less than two. And Payton inherited one of the worst train wrecks in the league.

 

[DSnfla]

Bum Phillips sometimes joked about a coach being so good that he could take 'his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n'. While I won't argue that the truly great teams generally have a few great players to improve the coach's odds of producing a winning squad, like you I do believe that you can't produce a great/winning team without a top notch head coach no matter how good the players are that he's been given.

To me one of the advantages of having a new head coach from outside the organization is that the players must earn their reputation with the new guy who is (generally) not coming into the organization with established friendships or favorites. A totally new guy isn't swayed by emotion. He has a philosophy and he picks the right guys who can best execute his plan of attack.

The one thing that I like about Rizzi is that he seems to want to head coaching job permanently and he may not allow favoritism & friendships to stand in the way of putting the best players that he can find to run his schemes. But it's hard not to allow strong personal bonds have an affect on who gets penciled into the Final 53.

Bum said that about Don Shula, and yeah he was kind of right

 

[DSnfla]

The Commanders got a dynamic QB and are competing. The Broncos got an intelligent, experienced, rookie QB to go along with their difference making Head Coach and they're winning with the least amount of talent in the race. The Texans got a dynamic QB and a dynamic coach, and they've turned it around and competed in two straight seasons.

Stroud is not as good as he was last yr. They are 9-5 because the AFCS is just as bad if not worse than the NFCS. They beat the Bills early in the season but that's it

 

[DSnfla]

Every rebuild is different, it could be 1 season to a perpetual rebuild status. Rebuilds also start at different points with different assets available.

There are a few recent rebuilds as examples; Detroit, Houston, Washington and Chicago.

Chicago thought they needed the right QB, so they made moves to posture themselves to get who they thought was the right QB. They loaded up on weapons, didn't address the O-line and added their QB. Was that the right answer and the right QB? TBD.

Washington did not have much in terms of weapons other than McLauren and Robinson, but they have a decent O-line and they knew they would get whoever fell to them so they concentrated on the line, defense and would add weapons later, but building the foundation for the QB was more important. Their QB is flourishing even without being loaded up with weapons. They are also headed to the playoffs 1 season after picking 2nd.

Houston had a good team with Watson, but his off the field stuff derailed it. They fell hard fast, but they did get some draft capital once they traded Watson, made the right hire for HC who brought a new identity and built around that identity. They built up the Defense, line and then took the QB that fell to them. The developed their WR1 in Nico Collins.

Detroit had pretty much nothing. They had to hire a HC who would bring in an identity and build around that. Campbell got rid of anyone who didn't fit his team build and Stafford who was being wasted in a rebuild. Goff needed to rebuild his career so it was a perfect match. That netted him some draft capital. He then built the trenches, with his guys. He drafted weapons on offense with the same mindset. Now, they are an offensive juggernaut in the image he wanted. Their defense is loaded with talent when healthy, but right now it's patchwork.

We have a young core of players to build around, the decision just needs to be made what will the team identity be and who fits that. This is where I believe Rizzi gets the job and KK stays as OC. This allows the offense to continue to build on what it has and they know what pieces they need. The defense is still TBD.

The only team you mentioned that didn't have a bounty of extra picks from trading big time players or teams trading up in the draft is Wash.
Hou. got 3 #1 picks for Watson
Chi got all those picks from Car and Moore
Det had 19 top 100 picks in the last 5 yrs, their own and the picks form the Stafford trade including a #2,#3 and a #7 and got Goff

Those teams had a tremendous jump start to their rebuild from those trades. Only Wash has done it naturally. I do think that Wash is overrated, they only have 1 win against a 500 or better team AZ and they are just at 500

 

[Saint KayBee]

Too bad that Allen couldn’t get in three years where Sean is now in less than two. And Payton inherited one of the worst train wrecks in the league.

Yeah it is unfortunate. Cut losses and move on. Unfortunately, the team-building strategy employed under Payton has the team in a harder hole to climb out of.

 

[Bill]

Yeah it is unfortunate. Cut losses and move on. Unfortunately, the team-building strategy employed under Payton has the team in a harder hole to climb out of.

That’s true. But the hole he had to work with in Denver wasn’t much different than what he had the last year that he was in New Orleans. It just seems that he had a good reason to want to start a rebuild somewhere else.

 

[NatureBoy]

I don't believe all rebuilds are created equally. Sometimes teams find themselves needing an overhaul and have a plethora of resources to do so. Other teams may have spent those resources trying to re-tool and/or extend past success. It all comes down to the starting line a team is beginning at, as well as what kind of young core it has built in to build around. Teams who have pushed their starting line way back will have a longer way to go. Unless a team gets really luckky, correcting financial matters doesn't happen quickly.

 

[tinman]

you think I forgot about Katrina? Come on man. No team or fan base ever went through something that bad. That said, the Saints were on a one year losing season streak going into 06. Broncos are riding a streak of 7 straight.

You posted that the Saints 05 season was the worst in NFL history, UNTIL this years Broncos. A 7 season losing streak doesn't hold a candle to the 1st 40 years in NOLA, much less the effects of the 05 season & the previous 20 years!

The Saints' had 7 winning seasons, 14 losing/even from 1985-2005. 5 playoff appearances & 1 win, with 5 coaches.
Broncos had 14 winning seasons, & 7 losing/even from 1985-2005; 12 playoff appearance & won 2 SuperBowls, with 3 coaches.
I'll gladly trade those records.

Hell the Jets have only 1 winning season out of the last 14 & aren't sniffing another, much less the playoffs.

 

[Saint KayBee]

That’s true. But the hole he had to work with in Denver wasn’t much different than what he had the last year that he was in New Orleans. It just seems that he had a good reason to want to start a rebuild somewhere else.

The money hole from the last year in New Orleans was the result of years pursuing his wishes.

Those didn’t manifest, either. The team was closer from 2017-2020, yes, in that they made the playoffs all four seasons.

It’s not like Brees left and the Saints became a 3-win team, so I think it made sense to keep trying to win. Dennis Lauscha grew up a Saints fan in New Orleans and probably doesn’t want to go back to the franchise’s old losing ways - and I think that order is passed down to the entire front office.

Maybe the Madden Football game GMs think one-year turnarounds are easily replicable, from competing against 31 manipulable AIs… in reality there are 31 other franchises that also want nothing more than to win, and they’re trying everything they can to compete, too.

 

[slikk]

Needn a quarterback and getting rid of a lot of old/loved vets saints have to get younger.

 

[saintsfan26]

Trade for Mahomes and the rebuild is done.