I Think Sometimes We Focus on the Wrong Things (My Thoughts on Derek Carr Catching Backlash for Not Being in the City) (23 Viewers)

[Hubig]

This city appreciates authenticity, something about Carr isn’t authentic. Can’t put my finger on it but the screaming at Olave publicly in year one was a glimpse behind the mask.

I also wasn’t to keen on him buying the WR’s gold chains that first year either. I questioned the reasoning behind the gesture, and I still do.

The huge donation he made to New Orleans…great, but he’s shown he’ll give away money because he has it, yet something still seems impersonal about those actions.

It’s like he keeps the city at Arms length, and the city returns the favor.

I don’t not like him, don’t know him, but there a certain lack of warmth that I detect. Hard to explain

When you venture off this forum and go into podcast world of the Saints, it all negative when it comes to Carr. Every podcast, including ones done by local media, call in shows like HoldtheMayo(Devin Snow) its all dislike for Carr. You really won't hear it on WWL because they have their fingers over the disconnect caller button. It's the same criticism, "Feels fake, artificial, space cadet, tone-deaf, bad optics, throws hospital balls).

He's so polarizing to this fanbase and its very interesting to say the least.

 

[Elvis]

It’s more unhinged crap too many people in this fan base participate in, in the name of being petty as if that’s a badge of honor. People who made up their minds that they hate him because he took his kids to a recognizable restaurant then fomented their hate because they don’t understand NFL QB contracts are people who are not working from solid foundations, yet they comprise the loudest and most irritating voices in the fan base. It is very important to establish that the guy had two strikes against him from large swarths of the fan base before he went to sleep for the first time as a Saint. That the team hasn’t gone to back-to-back Super Bowls has made the loud jerks louder and jerkier. And anyone who doesn’t join the pile-on gets accused of being related to, or sleeping with (if you’re a woman, as I am) the team member in question. The former accusation is harmless but the latter is extremely tacky.


What does this have to do with Super Bowl week being here, especially when the majority of the fan base here doesn’t even like him? Was he supposed to be a public spectacle for locals to ridicule on an international stage? Being an ambassador during Super Bowl week is a plus, but not a requirement. The Saints were represented plenty during the festivities - even the dearly beloved sex pest who Fox Sports gave a mic to.

The butt crevasse ratio in this fan base is tipping too far in the wrong direction. The constant whining and extreme negativity is making fanhood unpleasant.

It’s cumulative butt crevassery + my growing annoyance with fan behavior, in and out of this space, that is driving my opinion here. It’s like some people saw Dennis Allen get fired midseason, figured it was their participation in the collective meanness that made the firing happen, and will now behave like craven manchildren toward anyone else they want gone. For what it’s worth, I don’t care that DA is gone, we get eyes on the future direction of the team under Kellen Moore and hope for better play in the future, but some people just have not stopped at DA getting the axe.

I find it ridiculous that because some fans don't like a player for various reasons and you disagree with their reasons that you feel obligated to call then them "unhinged", "butt crevasses", and "craven manchildren". Defend the guy you like all you want, but the petty name calling as a defense isn't it.

 

[Saint KayBee]

I have never understood the ignore thing. It’s a forum you come to discuss the Saints with other people. Is it you only want to hear from people who echo your opinion?

No, I read opinions I disagree with all the time. Sometimes I engage, other times I scroll by. Abrasive, insulting, and perpetually sour people, as well as people who carry whiny agendas into every single thread, are the ones where I’ve decided “enough is enough.” A member has threatened me directly in my messages. Should I continue to see their posts too?

 

[StudioSaint]

I guess you’re falling on the defense of Carr side of things.

I don't see this as a "sides of things" issue like you seem to see it. It seems to you that see this as "either you're with Carr or against Carr." I'm neither, because I'm aware that I don't have nearly enough factual information to "defend any side of things."

If you need to put me on a "side of things," then please put me on the "I'm just going to wait to see what happens" "side of things."

But your argument is being disingenuous...

First, I repeated your argument and applied it to all of the QB's, not just the ones I like.

Second, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know what disingenuous actually means. If you do, then you can get stuffed for saying I'm being insincere or deceptive. Homey, don't play that. If I say it, I mean it and believe it.

...because you’re comparing players with a collective 7 starts to a guy with 170 starts. We know far more about Carr and his potential than we know about the other two.

We didn't know Carr's potential under Kubiak. He played better under Kubiak. We know nothing about Carr's potential under Moore.

Like Mora said "you think you know, but you don't." No one can know the future. You think you know what Carr's future under Moore would be, but you don't. It's not really hard to understand.

But to your point, there is no consensus that either are the future either. Rattler didn’t show enough that he should be a long term starter in his opportunities. Definitely a mixed bag. Haener was terrible in his and probably should get a ticket out of town with Carr.

I don't know how this inconsistency of thought can be anything but bias. It really seems like you started from a place of wanting Rattler and that you keep trying to come up with reasons why Rattler should be the starter and both Carr and Haener should go.

It seems if you were being consistent, you would want Rattler to get a ticket out of town also, because in your words "Rattler didn’t show enough that he should be a long term starter," yet your want the Saints to make a huge cap and roster sacrifice to get rid of Carr just so the Saints can start Rattler, who in you words again. "didn’t show enough that he should be a long term starter."

 

[Saint KayBee]

I find it ridiculous that because some fans don't like a player for various reasons and you disagree with their reasons that you feel obligated to call then them "unhinged", "butt crevasses", and "craven manchildren". Defend the guy you like all you want, but the petty name calling as a defense isn't it.

I am calling their actions that. I don’t know them as people beyond their posts. If someone behaves like a rotten manbaby over a football team not doing everything they want it to do, I’m going to call it rotten manbaby behavior.

If a picture of the Lombardi Trophy makes you write a term paper to the owner demanding this player and that be cut, these coaches all be fired, and then accusing her of excess loyalty to the general manager because the writer thinks they’re having sexual relations, I’m going to call that behavior unhinged.

I’m not sorry that naming awful fan behavior over 3 years of mediocre play hurts your feelings. “Behave better” is an option every single person has available to them.

As far as Derek Carr himself, I have stated 0 opinions and 1 fact about him as a player. The opinions: N/a; the fact: in 2023 the team had a winning record in games he started & finished. I haven’t said he’s good or bad, is or isn’t the long term answer, should or shouldn’t be on the roster this coming season. If he’s on the team I’m going to pull for him to do well. If he’s off the team I’m going to pull for the next starting quarterback to do well. Those two sentences have something in common.

 

[StudioSaint]

A member has threatened me directly in my messages. Should I continue to see their posts too?

I hope you reported that message to the moderators. I'm pretty sure the terms of service here applies to private messages.

 

[Semper]

No, I read opinions I disagree with all the time. Sometimes I engage, other times I scroll by. Abrasive, insulting, and perpetually sour people, as well as people who carry whiny agendas into every single thread, are the ones where I’ve decided “enough is enough.” A member has threatened me directly in my messages. Should I continue to see their posts too?

Makes sense. My bad.

 

[Rexman100]

It’s more unhinged crap too many people in this fan base participate in, in the name of being petty as if that’s a badge of honor. People who made up their minds that they hate him because he took his kids to a recognizable restaurant then fomented their hate because they don’t understand NFL QB contracts are people who are not working from solid foundations, yet they comprise the loudest and most irritating voices in the fan base. It is very important to establish that the guy had two strikes against him from large swarths of the fan base before he went to sleep for the first time as a Saint. That the team hasn’t gone to back-to-back Super Bowls has made the loud jerks louder and jerkier. And anyone who doesn’t join the pile-on gets accused of being related to, or sleeping with (if you’re a woman, as I am) the team member in question. The former accusation is harmless but the latter is extremely tacky.


What does this have to do with Super Bowl week being here, especially when the majority of the fan base here doesn’t even like him? Was he supposed to be a public spectacle for locals to ridicule on an international stage? Being an ambassador during Super Bowl week is a plus, but not a requirement. The Saints were represented plenty during the festivities - even the dearly beloved sex pest who Fox Sports gave a mic to.

The butt crevasse ratio in this fan base is tipping too far in the wrong direction. The constant whining and extreme negativity is making fanhood unpleasant.

It’s cumulative butt crevassery + my growing annoyance with fan behavior, in and out of this space, that is driving my opinion here. It’s like some people saw Dennis Allen get fired midseason, figured it was their participation in the collective meanness that made the firing happen, and will now behave like craven manchildren toward anyone else they want gone. For what it’s worth, I don’t care that DA is gone, we get eyes on the future direction of the team under Kellen Moore and hope for better play in the future, but some people just have not stopped at DA getting the axe.

Wow, you nailed every point 100% perfectly. Add in, that some of these loud bad mouthers have their own YT / X agenda.

 

[Saint KayBee]

I hope you reported that message to the moderators. I'm pretty sure the terms of service here applies to private messages.

I did, and a few weeks after the harasser’s ban ended, I spotted the mod I reported that poster to being pessimism buddies with said poster. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

 

[JackDiesel]

It’s kind of interesting and frustrating to me that it is so hard for some folks to fathom the idea that it’s possible for a QB to be good, above average but somehow end up stuck on bad teams all the time.

It’s like we all acknowledge that the Raiders are one of the most dysfunctional teams in pro sports, consistently hires bad head coaches and makes poor personnel decisions, had never had a good defense while he was there, acknowledge that Dennis Allen was one of the worst HCs of all-time while here and also was the HC to start Carr’s career, that our injury situation was incredibly, historically awful here, that Pete Carmichael had no idea what he was doing as his OC…but hey, that Derek Carr guy should overcome all of this and win some games already!

He’s had an anomaly career. Teams aren’t just starting him for the sake of it or based on merely reputation…the guy can play.

He’s just not the type of QB that you can stick on a bad team with just anyone at WR and expect him to elevate their games like Drew did at times. Heck, as Saints fans, we saw what happened even if you stick a DREW BREES on bad teams with bad defenses…he doesn’t win nearly as much. The fact that we had so many 7-9 seasons with Drew friggin’ Brees in his prime at QB, which is downright pathetic on the part of Sean Payton and a lowkey fireable offense that he was lucky to survive, tells you how easily things like this can happen.

This is what Carr was working with in Oakland/Vegas, but hey, it’s all his fault that they never won a playoff game amirite?

If the team was as good as Loomis believed then things probably would have turned out different for him. It wasn't and Carr isn't the kind of QB to elevate others play around him.

Personally I don't think he handles himself well in the face of adversity. The fight with McCoy comes to mind and him yelling at Chris Olave. It's just a bad look to see that kind of attitude coming from anywhere but especially the QB position. And while no one should confuse Michael Thomas for being right in the head he clearly hates Carr with a next level passion.

 

[Elvis]

I am calling their actions that. I don’t know them as people beyond their posts. If someone behaves like a rotten manbaby over a football team not doing everything they want it to do, I’m going to call it rotten manbaby behavior.

If a picture of the Lombardi Trophy makes you write a term paper to the owner demanding this player and that be cut, these coaches all be fired, and then accusing her of excess loyalty to the general manager because the writer thinks they’re having sexual relations, I’m going to call that behavior unhinged.

I’m not sorry that naming awful fan behavior over 3 years of mediocre play hurts your feelings. “Behave better” is an option every single person has available to them.

As far as Derek Carr himself, I have stated 0 opinions and 1 fact about him as a player. The opinions: N/a; the fact: in 2023 the team had a winning record in games he started & finished. I haven’t said he’s good or bad, is or isn’t the long term answer, should or shouldn’t be on the roster this coming season. If he’s on the team I’m going to pull for him to do well. If he’s off the team I’m going to pull for the next starting quarterback to do well. Those two sentences have something in common.

Hide behind calling peoples "action" petty names all you want, you aren't fooling anybody and I guess we can now add "manbaby" to the list now. As for the rest of your diatribe, grow up a little. This is a fan forum. Fan is short for "fanatic".

Fanatic
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.

That is literally what this place is for. If you want to have vanilla, level head conversations about football, this probably isn't the place for you. And to start name calling because other people don't fan the way you like is absurd. Disagree with us, but don't tell us how to fan.

 

[StudioSaint]

If the team was as good as Loomis believed then things probably would have turned out different for him. It wasn't and Carr isn't the kind of QB to elevate others play around him.

Personally I don't think he handles himself well in the face of adversity. The fight with McCoy comes to mind and him yelling at Chris Olave. It's just a bad look to see that kind of attitude coming from anywhere but especially the QB position. And while no one should confuse Michael Thomas for being right in the head he clearly hates Carr with a next level passion.

McCoy took responsibility for the fight with Carr in an interview with Jono. He said he was dealing with some mental/emotional health issues at the time and it got the best of him in that moment.

I don't give any credibility to anything Thomas says.

Olave doesn't seem to think Carr yelling at him was a big deal.

 

[Rexman100]

Derek Carr is a 150m Andy Dalton. Bottom of the mid tier QB, not winning anything significant with him. You might win 10 games with him if every single thing around him goes right, he isn't elevating anyone to the next level. The optics have never been good with him, yelling at players on the field, throwing ppl under the bus, seemingly allergic to accountability, and even had a head coach that enabled him. He's been a tough player through the years, rushes to get back on the field, to his credit.

He's just not a fit for New Orleans and will never be a fit for this fanbase. He gets crushed more on twitter than Mayor Cantrell, let that one sink in. He gets crushed more than just about anyone else in the public sphere in the state. He doesn't seem very popular with the fans, either optically or just seems tone deaf, you could debate whether or not thats fair but it just is what it is.

The problem is that fans believe if DC4 is seen lighting a match, then he’s an arsonist. He and Olave have a little scrape and now he’s “yelling at players on the field”. However, that’s not the issue, it’s that he didn’t earn the right to have a public scrape with Olave, is the real deal. How ignorant is that? He wasn’t on the team long enough, according to fans. I don’t even recall when he earned the title, “allergic to accountability”. And his previous coach enabled him, like it’s some chronic destructive additiction. “Throws people under the bus”. He would have to do this a lot for this to be true. But it isn’t. The truth is, they never liked him because, like sheep, were told not to. They bought into and adopted the paid opinions that were conjured from motivated YT’ers. And like puppets they were played.

If you look at him from afar, without the sorcery that is public opinion, you see a good QB that gives it his all. He’s the guy after “the guy“ an impossible position to succeed.

 

[Elvis]

I don't see this as a "sides of things" issue like you seem to see it. It seems to you that see this as "either you're with Carr or against Carr." I'm neither, because I'm aware that I don't have nearly enough factual information to "defend any side of things."

If you need to put me on a "side of things," then please put me on the "I'm just going to wait to see what happens" "side of things."


First, I repeated your argument and applied it to all of the QB's, not just the ones I like.

Second, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know what disingenuous actually means. If you do, then you can get stuffed for saying I'm being insincere or deceptive. Homey, don't play that. If I say it, I mean it and believe it.

We didn't know Carr's potential under Kubiak. He played better under Kubiak. We know nothing about Carr's potential under Moore.

Like Mora said "you think you know, but you don't." No one can know the future. You think you know what Carr's future under Moore would be, but you don't. It's not really hard to understand.


I don't know how this inconsistency of thought can be anything but bias. It really seems like you started from a place of wanting Rattler and that you keep trying to come up with reasons why Rattler should be the starter and both Carr and Haener should go.

It seems if you were being consistent, you would want Rattler to get a ticket out of town also, because in your words "Rattler didn’t show enough that he should be a long term starter," yet your want the Saints to make a huge cap and roster sacrifice to get rid of Carr just so the Saints can start Rattler, who in you words again. "didn’t show enough that he should be a long term starter."

Yes, I believe you're being insincere comparing a rookie with 6 starts due to injury to a 10 year starter with 170 starts. It was your attempt to apply the same standard to both players when they aren't in even remotely the same position. And "get stuffed"? Really? What is it with some of you?

And no, I didn't start from a "place of wanting Rattler". I started from a place of wanting Carr's contract to go away and for the team to rebuild around a young QB. Rattler by default is the best remaining QB on the roster and I've said repeatedly in many threads that the team should draft a QB in every single draft until it's clear we have the future QB. If the team thought they'd seen enough of Rattler and moved off of him, I'd be disappointed that I didn't get to see more, but I'd understand.

 

[Rexman100]

I find it ridiculous that because some fans don't like a player for various reasons and you disagree with their reasons that you feel obligated to call then them "unhinged", "butt crevasses", and "craven manchildren". Defend the guy you like all you want, but the petty name calling as a defense isn't it.

So the butt crevasse’s get to enjoy being butt crevasses without any fear of retribution? Doesn’t sound fair to me.