Ian Rapoport: Saints to make a decision on Taysom Hill; hard to imagine Hill returning [T.Hill is turning 35 w/ 18M cap hit & ACL recovery] (6 Viewers)

[SWAMP_THING]

Taysom is a great guy and a great player when healthy, but he is not a 25 year-old franchise player.

I wish Taysom was 25 and not coming off of multiple serious injuries, but he is. They are going to have to limit his touches to try to keep him healthy or just go YOLO knowing that at some point he will get hurt. That means you can't make him the centerpiece of the offense. That likely means he needs to take a pay cut.

Oh I get it, just for him to fall off significantly, it would likely be injury related but that's every players concern. I just want TH not to be misused or overused since he's not behind center...last OC almost had it figured out

 

[Elvis]

yep. All of that. Matt Mascona a paid actor, ranted hard on the day Carr was signed by the Saints. He ranted : "we already know who Carr is, we have a 9 year sample" and "the emperor of empty yards" The latter sorcery was dispelled this year. But yet the parrots parrot on. (not necessarily here, all over social media) When im pretty sure that 100% of the parrots would not tell those things to Carrs face. Other paid actors are twitter "influencers" that brainstorm titles that will trigger clicks, the parrots also roll with that sorcery as their own. I like Matt but i also know who he is, he's a paid actor that knows how to successfully trigger the Saints fan base. Dont believe me? Wait until Moore makes a questionable decision, you'll say to yourself, wow, i thought this coach was exactly what the majority wanted, (young offensvie) but yet he's tearing it apart for clicks. This isnt to down Matt, he does a great job. But fans can be easily influenced. Even Raider fans are like, wow these Saints fans hate Carr.. I could go on an on. This isnt pro Carr either, my point is, if you're going to talk trash, at least be factually accurate, otherwise its just hateful graffitti. About Carr and a 2nd round pick, a deperate enough team that only needs an above average Qb to make a run, could be leveraged a lot more that Saints fan believe he's worth, and thats a bag of chips.

I've watched Mascona maybe once or twice. I didn't like his style at all and haven't watched him in a while. Others had a lot of concerns about Carr. I live in Oaklands shadow and watched entirely too much Derek Carr for my liking. He's not different now than he was then. He's had some good talent around him at times and has never made anyone better.

And there is no team that is desperate enough to give a 2nd round pick for that contract. He has base salaries of $30m and $50m over the next two years. Like who would do that?

 

[DavidM]

Taysom is a great guy and a great player when healthy, but he is not a 25 year-old franchise player.

I wish Taysom was 25 and not coming off of multiple serious injuries, but he is. They are going to have to limit his touches to try to keep him healthy or just go YOLO knowing that at some point he will get hurt. That means you can't make him the centerpiece of the offense. That likely means he needs to take a pay cut.

This. Everybody loves what Hill has meant to this team. He's a uniquely talented player. But, 35 and coming back from another serious injury has spelled the end of a lot of NFL careers. I hope he can bounce back and go out on his terms, but realistically, it's hard to imagine his role on this team isn't going to have to be much more limited or even come to an end. Great for him and us if he can defy the odds.

 

[Booker]

Unless he takes a pay cut, his contract is basically a wash one way or the other this year. If you cut him you have $17.7 in dead money cap hit. If you keep him it’s $17.9 cap hit. The real decision was supposed to be next year but his injury complicates things.

He's under contract for one more year with a $10M salary and an overall cap number of close to $18M (and another $9.7M in dead money for void years in 2026 & 2027) but none of his salary is guaranteed. I could see this going a few different ways, depending on what the new staff wants to do, similar to the Derek Carr situation.

• Option 1, do nothing, playout the season. He'd count about $18M this year, and assuming he wasn't resigned would count $9.7 against the cap in 2026. (With their cap situation, this is probably the most unlikely scenario.)
• Option 2, create cap space by converting salary to bonus. They could probably get his cap number down to about $10M for 2025, but absent an extension that would leave about $17.7M in dead money to hit in 2026.
• Option 3, cut him pre June 1. He'd count $17.7M in dead money in 2025, but that would actually create a small cap savings ($277K).
• Option 4, cut him post June 1. He'd still count close to $8M in dead money but would save $10M against the cap for 2025, and then would carry about $9.7M in dead money in 2026.

I would expect option 2 is most likely, but we'll see -- a lot will depend on how he and the team view his recovery.

 

[St. Widge]

Completely understandable that he would, but I'm curious to hear what he says publicly, and more importantly, how he addresses the position during the offseason. Has he discussed the position publicly yet (I'm assuming he hasn't, but I don't know that for a fact) or has there been another source besides what Russini mentioned? I don't follow her, or know much about her, but I've seen she's on the receiving end of a lot of criticism online, and questions raised about her credibility. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean anything, either.

Concern can cover a lot of ground, too. As you said, Carr can only be a short-term answer at his age, and now demonstrated durability, and we don't know, beyond a doubt, what we have in the young guys on the roster - I think especially, Rattler. Concern could be uncertainty or it could be a conclusion that the position group needs to be overhauled.

It's really just what Russini mentioned, but couple that with reports that Loomis is willing to give Moore a grace period, seems to suggest that Carr isn't likely in Moore's long term plans. If for no other reason, he's 34 and only has 2 more years on his contract.

Of course, that doesn't mean Carr won't be here this year and it doesn't mean Moore can't change his mind or keep Carr until he does find the solution. Moore has not said anything publicly and I suspect he won't say anything other than I am evaluating the QB position and/or what he said about Carr previously which is something like he has done a lot of good things in the NFL.

As far as Russini's credibility. I tend to think she is credible and a lot of the noise probably has to do with general hostility to the media more than anything else but I, like you, don't really follow her closely.

 

[Elvis]

He's under contract for one more year with a $10M salary and an overall cap number of close to $18M (and another $9.7M in dead money for void years in 2026 & 2027) but none of his salary is guaranteed. I could see this going a few different ways, depending on what the new staff wants to do, similar to the Derek Carr situation.

• Option 1, do nothing, playout the season. He'd count about $18M this year, and assuming he wasn't resigned would count $9.7 against the cap in 2026. (With their cap situation, this is probably the most unlikely scenario.)
• Option 2, create cap space by converting salary to bonus. They could probably get his cap number down to about $10M for 2025, but absent an extension that would leave about $17.7M in dead money to hit in 2026.
• Option 3, cut him pre June 1. He'd count $17.7M in dead money in 2025, but that would actually create a small cap savings ($277K).
• Option 4, cut him post June 1. He'd still count close to $8M in dead money but would save $10M against the cap for 2025, and then would carry about $9.7M in dead money in 2026.

I would expect option 2 is most likely, but we'll see -- a lot will depend on how he and the team view his recovery.

I'd expect a pay cut or him being cut outright before a restructure on Taysom. We aren't going to spend that much new cash and kick the can for a player that we have no idea can even recover from his injuries enough to be close to the same guy as he was. It's the brutal part of being an injured older player in the NFL.

 

[Rexman100]

I've watched Mascona maybe once of twice. I didn't like his style at all and haven't watched him in a while. Others had a lot of concerns about Carr. I live in Oaklands shadow and watched entirely too much Derek Carr for my liking. He's not different now than he was then. He's had some good talent around him at times and has never made anyone better.

And there is no team that is desperate enough to give a 2nd round pick for that contract. He has base salaries of $30m and $50m over the next two years. Like who would do that?

If i were Pitt/Jets, id trade for him then renegotiate Carr to a 3 to 4 year deal, with a trade clause. Those two teams need to win now. There's more value in experienced QBs than Saints fans think. Id rather have a 9 year vet that's seen everything slide into a run heavy offense than a rookie, we saw how that went.

 

[Elvis]

If i were Pitt/Jets, id trade for him then renegotiate Carr to a 3 to 4 year deal, with a trade clause. Those two teams need to win now. There's more value in experienced QBs than Saints fans think. Id rather have a 9 year vet that's seen everything slide into a run heavy offense than a rookie, we saw how that went.

Those teams can have Russel Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz or Justin Fields. Carr hasn't show his ceiling is higher than those guys. 3 of them have Super Bowl championships and don't cost anywhere close in money and take no draft picks.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

I would love to see Hill play for a contending team next year. He deserves a shot. But I don't know where things stand with Hill and the salary cap.

 

[SaintsMan209]

I think these reports are Mickey trying to get ahead of when we cut him. Hopefully Taysom does the right thing and restructures his contract to half that salary cap hit. Let's face it, he's not worth what we are and have been paying for him. Seems like he's been hurt way too much.

 

[St. Widge]

Those teams can have Russel Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz or Justin Fields. Carr hasn't show his ceiling is higher than those guys. 3 of them have Super Bowl championships and don't cost anywhere close in money and take no draft picks.

I don't think we could get more than a 6th or 7th round pick for car and maybe only a 6th if we send a 7th back, but i do think Carr arguably has more value for a team that thinks they are a QB away than most of those guys other than Darnold. And Carr would likely come cheaper than Darnold and was much better than Darnold up until this year. Of course, Carr isn't likely to waive his no trade clause and is more likely force the Saints to cut him if they want to move on.

But, as far as the other available QBs:

Darnold is probably a better QB so most teams would take him over Carr. But you do have to wonder if he can do it in another system without the WRs they have in Minny. He also may want huge money coming off of a great year in Minny until the playoffs.

Fields is all about potential upside that you can teach him to throw. So, he's a bigger risk than Carr.

Russel Wilson may be done, apparently brings some locker room issues, and may want more money than Carr. But, it's probably about a wash with Carr.

Flacco may retire and is many, many years from his Super Bowl form. I'd take Carr over him unless Carr wants crazy money.

Wentz though he technically has a SB ring only had that one good year and it was Foles that finished it off. I think Carr is just a better QB than Wentz.

 

[baarbogast]

Can we waive him with injury designation?

 

[dutar76]

Was reading earlier that Moore could use Hill like a Hurts style qb. Now I know alot of people has that ship sailing with Taysom as QB, but he does have a 6-2 or 6-3 record as a starter something like that. Anything is possible with an offensive mind like Moore. Definitely would be better than a Milroe in my opinion.

Taysom Hill Stats As A Starter Qb In Career | StatMuse

Taysom Hill has a passer rating of 86.1 with 1,964 yards, 8 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in 33 games as a starter in his career.

www.statmuse.com

Taysom Hill Stats As A Starter Qb In Career | StatMuse

Taysom Hill has a passer rating of 86.1 with 1,964 yards, 8 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in 33 games as a starter in his career.

www.statmuse.com

Not really as crazy of an idea. Then Keep Carr to come in on 3rd and long , 4th and long, and hail mary's. (jk)
As much as I like Taysom,, he'd waste the speed of our receivers and that' pretty much all our receivers have going for them.
Taysom throws short and to the other team on deep shots.

 

[Elvis]

I don't think we could get more than a 6th or 7th round pick for car and maybe only a 6th if we send a 7th back, but i do think Carr arguably has more value for a team that thinks they are a QB away than most of those guys other than Darnold. And Carr would likely come cheaper than Darnold and was much better than Darnold up until this year. Of course, Carr isn't likely to waive his no trade clause and is more likely force the Saints to cut him if they want to move on.

But, as far as the other available QBs:

Darnold is probably a better QB so most teams would take him over Carr. But you do have to wonder if he can do it in another system without the WRs they have in Minny. He also may want huge money coming off of a great year in Minny until the playoffs.

Fields is all about potential upside that you can teach him to throw. So, he's a bigger risk than Carr.

Russel Wilson may be done, apparently brings some locker room issues, and may want more money than Carr. But, it's probably about a wash with Carr.

Flacco may retire and is many, many years from his Super Bowl form. I'd take Carr over him unless Carr wants crazy money.

Wentz though he technically has a SB ring only had that one good year and it was Foles that finished it off. I think Carr is just a better QB than Wentz.

Sure, but is Carr a 2nd round pick and "I know what I've put on film" money to any team? His ceiling hasn't really changed in his entire career. What GM and coach is going to say "Derek Carr is our missing piece and we should give up valuable draft picks for him."? I think Pittsburgh will re-sign Fields and I don't see Aaron Glenn bringing in a guy like Carr. Who else? The Giants might do something with the HC seat on fire, but even still it won't be for a second. Then you combine that with a no trade clause and it all falls apart. Trading Carr is a pipe dream.

 

[2024InjuryApocalypse]

Those teams can have Russel Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz or Justin Fields. Carr hasn't show his ceiling is higher than those guys. 3 of them have Super Bowl championships and don't cost anywhere close in money and take no draft picks.

Wentz didn't start in the playoffs for them though and has been really bad after that season. He's played in as many playoff games as Carr has (1). Wentz has only thrown 4 passes in the playoffs.

I get your point about money and all that but I don't think anyone's going anywhere near Wentz as a starter even if he is cheap.