In Your Opinion, Why Should the Saints Steer Away from the Payton Coaching Tree? (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

Fresh start. I'm astonished at how many people have lowered their expectations since Sean and Drew left. The goal should be another ring, and I would rather try and fail than keep going along with barely average quarterbacks and coaching candidates. That said, hire the best guy.

I don't think anyone here, or on the team payroll for that matter, has any goal in mind other than another ring. We just don't always agree regarding the best way to get another ring and the history of the NFL shows that there are many ways to do it.

But sure, the best way to do it is to hire the best HC and let him build his team the way he wants to build it. I'm all for a fresh start but a fresh start is no guarantee of success any more than something less than a full turnover is any guarantee of failure.

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

CSP took a 3-13 team to 10-6 and an NFCCG in his 1st season. That's a +7 game improvement. Saints are currently 5-9. CSP demonstrated what the right hire can do. It's probably not likely, but it's possible. At this point it appears the Saints final record will be 6-11, with a ceiling of 7-10. It seems that 10-7 is the likely floor to guarantee a playoff spot. We just need a coach to make a +4 game improvement. And even with injuries, an argument could be made that better coaching in situational moments likely would have resulted in that outcome THIS year. JMO...

Good points but this team was decimated by injuries... Many teams are... see Detroit... The difference is your back-up depth and we have none.... For that reason I think a new coach should be expected to get us to 9 wins at best. It is going to take time to build depth... But again you make good points as to what Sean was able to do year one

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

Try telling that to our fan base.

Yea well.... Us old guys remember 20+ years without a winning season... I'll keep buying my ST's

 

[Saint KayBee]

Try telling that to our fan base.

“wE hAvE hIgHeR sTanDaRdS n0W!!!!!!11”

 

[Saint KayBee]

CSP took a 3-13 team to 10-6 and an NFCCG in his 1st season. That's a +7 game improvement. Saints are currently 5-9. CSP demonstrated what the right hire can do. It's probably not likely, but it's possible. At this point it appears the Saints final record will be 6-11, with a ceiling of 7-10. It seems that 10-7 is the likely floor to guarantee a playoff spot. We just need a coach to make a +4 game improvement. And even with injuries, an argument could be made that better coaching in situational moments likely would have resulted in that outcome THIS year. JMO...

There’s a lot to say about this.

1) Jim Haslett also took a 3-13 team to 10 wins
2) Everybody involved says that both turnarounds were smoke & mirrors (Haslett knocked off the defending Super Bowl champs, Payton beat a team he already had a regular season victory against after a bye week, which [see note 3])
2a) the team immediately regressed to a losing record and a last-place finish in the division the following two seasons before putting it all together in ‘09
2a-i) Haslett also backslid in year 2
3) from 2002-2019, the 4-division 6-team playoff era, no 10-win team had ever been a 2-seed in the conference playoffs except the 2006 Saints, and even that needed a head-to-head tiebreaker to be possible
3a) the Saints clinched the NFC South despite losing the week they clinched
3a-i) the entire NFC was so uniquely putrid in 2006, Rex Grossman was the Super Bowl QB for the conference. His AFC counterpart was Peyton Manning.



I say all this to say, just playing the results and ignoring all context sets up disappointment and discontent. “Why can’t New Coach meet tHe sTaNDaRdS of the old coach?”

 

[Saint KayBee]

Fresh start. I'm astonished at how many people have lowered their expectations since Sean and Drew left. The goal should be another ring, and I would rather try and fail than keep going along with barely average quarterbacks and coaching candidates. That said, hire the best guy.

Sean and Drew don’t permeate the walls, bud. They are gone. You can hope the next men up can be as good, but unfortunately as fans we don’t get to dictate standards. They play the games, we cheer ‘em on.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Steer into the crash…. Joe Brady for HC. Rizzi as ST coordinator and assistant HC. Keep Kubiak to be OC, but he really just helps with the gameplan and manages the run game. Hire Salaeh as DC.

Problems solved.

I like it. I can’t exactly put my finger on it, but Ben Johnson makes me a bit nervous. As if he’s a pure X’s and O’s guy while Joe Brady is both an X’s and O’s guy but also lights a fire under his players butts. As seen, he’s also very good at game time adjustments.

I think I like Joe Brady far more then any other candidate.

 

[Snakehead]

CSP took a 3-13 team to 10-6 and an NFCCG in his 1st season. That's a +7 game improvement. Saints are currently 5-9. CSP demonstrated what the right hire can do. It's probably not likely, but it's possible. At this point it appears the Saints final record will be 6-11, with a ceiling of 7-10. It seems that 10-7 is the likely floor to guarantee a playoff spot. We just need a coach to make a +4 game improvement. And even with injuries, an argument could be made that better coaching in situational moments likely would have resulted in that outcome THIS year. JMO...

Rizzi from week 1 we'd have a winning record even with the injuries.

 

[No2DC]

Sean and Drew don’t permeate the walls, bud. They are gone. You can hope the next men up can be as good, but unfortunately as fans we don’t get to dictate standards. They play the games, we cheer ‘em on.

Sounds like low expectations to me

 

[No2DC]

I don't think anyone here, or on the team payroll for that matter, has any goal in mind other than another ring. We just don't always agree regarding the best way to get another ring and the history of the NFL shows that there are many ways to do it.

But sure, the best way to do it is to hire the best HC and let him build his team the way he wants to build it. I'm all for a fresh start but a fresh start is no guarantee of success any more than something less than a full turnover is any guarantee of failure.

No doubt, I would rather try and fail than never try at all. It seems like a lot of folks around don't even want to try.

 

[jasonsw]

Rieds coaching tree is pretty crappy also. Not many great coaches have a good or great coaching tree.

 

[Hedon James]

There’s a lot to say about this.

1) Jim Haslett also took a 3-13 team to 10 wins
2) Everybody involved says that both turnarounds were smoke & mirrors (Haslett knocked off the defending Super Bowl champs, Payton beat a team he already had a regular season victory against after a bye week, which [see note 3])
2a) the team immediately regressed to a losing record and a last-place finish in the division the following two seasons before putting it all together in ‘09
2a-i) Haslett also backslid in year 2
3) from 2002-2019, the 4-division 6-team playoff era, no 10-win team had ever been a 2-seed in the conference playoffs except the 2006 Saints, and even that needed a head-to-head tiebreaker to be possible
3a) the Saints clinched the NFC South despite losing the week they clinched
3a-i) the entire NFC was so uniquely putrid in 2006, Rex Grossman was the Super Bowl QB for the conference. His AFC counterpart was Peyton Manning.



I say all this to say, just playing the results and ignoring all context sets up disappointment and discontent. “Why can’t New Coach meet tHe sTaNDaRdS of the old coach?”

i can't disagree with much you said here. and I had honestly forgotten about Haslett, but yeah....he did it too. But you read way more into my post than intended...I certainly didn't mean to ask (nor imply) "why can't New Coach meet standards of the old coach?"

In my previous post, I was responding to a guy who thinks the Saints won't be relevant for several more years, no matter who the coach is. In all fairness to that guy, he MAY be right. I was simply pointing out that the right coach (CSP, and now Haslett) can indeed provide a +7 game swing in the win column. If we found that guy again, the Saints MAY be a 12-13 win team next season. I don't think that's likely, but it is possible, and your Haslett example means it isn't isolated to potential future HOF coaches.

I was simply trying to identify what I think it will reasonably take to make the playoffs (10 wins seems to be pretty reliable....perhaps 9 under the right circumstances, with the right combination of tie-breakers). And the differential from where the Saints are in 2024 (likely a 6-win team, IMO) versus a playoff team is only +4 games. With the right HC hire, that is absolutely do-able in year 1, IMO. I think it was do-able with THIS roster, THIS year, with the right HC; even with all the adversity experienced. If the past 5 games can be extrapolated, I think a full season of Rizzi would have yielded 10 wins and playoffs.

Regardless of what IS, what could have been is just conjecture on my part. And I guess "relevance" needs to be defined, because "making playoffs" and "challenging for Superbowls" are 2 different levels of relevance, IMO. My point was simply to illustrate that a sad-sack Saints team vaulted into playoff relevance before (2x) in ONE season, and that it is certainly do-able again. But it's probably 2-3 seasons before they are relevant as "challenging for Superbowls" again, so I probably should've asked that fella before I posted. Maybe we actually agree? Even so, Step 1 is to find the RIGHT coach this offseason. Step 2 will be to make the playoffs. And I firmly believe that if Step 1 is successful, Step 2 will follow as a result. That is ALL I am saying, nothing more. JMO...

 

[sfidc3]

We shouldn't steer away from anyone.....I for one want Joe Brady as the next HC and it could certainly be argued that he is a branch on the CSP tree....

 

[Saint KayBee]

i can't disagree with much you said here. and I had honestly forgotten about Haslett, but yeah....he did it too. But you read way more into my post than intended...I certainly didn't mean to ask (nor imply) "why can't New Coach meet standards of the old coach?"

In my previous post, I was responding to a guy who thinks the Saints won't be relevant for several more years, no matter who the coach is. In all fairness to that guy, he MAY be right. I was simply pointing out that the right coach (CSP, and now Haslett) can indeed provide a +7 game swing in the win column. If we found that guy again, the Saints MAY be a 12-13 win team next season. I don't think that's likely, but it is possible, and your Haslett example means it isn't isolated to potential future HOF coaches.

I was simply trying to identify what I think it will reasonably take to make the playoffs (10 wins seems to be pretty reliable....perhaps 9 under the right circumstances, with the right combination of tie-breakers). And the differential from where the Saints are in 2024 (likely a 6-win team, IMO) versus a playoff team is only +4 games. With the right HC hire, that is absolutely do-able in year 1, IMO. I think it was do-able with THIS roster, THIS year, with the right HC; even with all the adversity experienced. If the past 5 games can be extrapolated, I think a full season of Rizzi would have yielded 10 wins and playoffs.

Regardless of what IS, what could have been is just conjecture on my part. And I guess "relevance" needs to be defined, because "making playoffs" and "challenging for Superbowls" are 2 different levels of relevance, IMO. My point was simply to illustrate that a sad-sack Saints team vaulted into playoff relevance before (2x) in ONE season, and that it is certainly do-able again. But it's probably 2-3 seasons before they are relevant as "challenging for Superbowls" again, so I probably should've asked that fella before I posted. Maybe we actually agree? Even so, Step 1 is to find the RIGHT coach this offseason. Step 2 will be to make the playoffs. And I firmly believe that if Step 1 is successful, Step 2 will follow as a result. That is ALL I am saying, nothing more. JMO...

The back half of my post was a general observation… you’ve said nothing here that I find disagreeable or in need of a counterpoint. At the end of the day, we all wanna see a group of winners in the black & gold.