Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (4 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

I'm uncomfortable with how anti-semitic this anti-Zionism is getting by people who aren't so much forgetting the past but who I suspect don't know the full breadth of the past or, worse, don't care. How am I to care more for the Palestinians than I am to care for Israelis?

I mean, I don't "remember" the Holocaust either. That was before my time (that's how long ago it was). But I know about the history because the whole world knows about the extermination of 6,000,000 souls. In fact, I know I've known about it when I was very, very young and not because I was Jewish and learned about it at home.

I want to ask all these protestors shouting "from the river to the sea" if they really REALLY know history. Not that I suspect it would matter. It's the emotion.

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitic. The first people on Earth who reacted negatively to the idea of Zionism were Jews. Jews were the first people who heard about it, so of course the topic was a Jewish topic at first. About half of Jews didn't and don't like the idea of Zionism.

Part and parcel with the idea of Zionism are high Priests and Temple ritual. An authority I don't want to conform to. Hell NO to that idea. I like my Judaism to be modern, and Templeless. The Temple is in ruins. We've evolved beyond that for 2,000 years

NO priests! We got along fine without Temple priests, and Temple ritual for 2,000 years. I don't recognize a religious authority centered in Israel. HELL NO !!! We've had 2,000 years of no centralized authority.


Israeli overly Orthodox, overly frum, conservative bozos don't get to rule over me in America. HELL NO !!!

That might explain a lot to someone who hasn't thought these Zionist ramifications through. Israel is not what it seems. It's not my Jewish homeland. The USA is my Jewish homeland.

 

[Plow]

Israel is not what it seems.

In your view, does Israel have a right to exist?

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

In your view, does Israel have a right to exist?

Why do people always ask that question like it is an inquisition.

 

[Plow]

Why do people always ask that question like it is an inquisition.

The poster was being expansive on his/her views of Israel. It's a fair follow up question, and certainly no one is being compelled to answer it.

 

[Consigliere]

Temple ritual. An authority I don't want to conform to. Hell NO to that idea. I like my Judaism to be modern, and Templeless. The Temple is in ruins. We've evolved beyond that for 2,000 years

Sorry but the Christian Right has driven American-Israeli policy since Zionism became a thing, and they do not believe in evolution.

Gotta support Israel, in order to rebuild the Temple, in order for Jesus to come back.

Of course, when he comes back, you guys are screwed. But until then Israel gets full support!

 

[Madmarsha]

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitic.

I know but it seems as if it's starting to morph.

 

[Plow]

I know but it seems as if it's starting to morph.

becoming bundled together and weaponized

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

becoming bundled together and weaponized

By the media.

 

[DaveXA]

By the media.

Sure, but it's a lot more than that.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Sure, but it's a lot more than that.

Not really.

It so pathetic that so many people (not you) are calling anyone who says anything remotely critical of Israel antisemitic or a Hamas supporter.

There are some antisemitic people for sure, that hasn't changed. The conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-semitism is being promoted by the media.

I am related to some real antisemites, and they love the fact that Israel exists, they wish all Jews would go there.

There are many antisemites who support Zionism.

 

[Madmarsha]

By the media.

I hear that but the media isn't responsible for the Anti-Zionist protests and the other things and the "river to the sea" chants.

 

[jboss]

I hear that but the media isn't responsible for the Anti-Zionist protests and the other things and the "river to the sea" chants.

But they are responsible for how a lot of this is being framed. I was watching network news yesterday, left on from watching SNF, and thought, "O looks like they're just sticking to the post 9/11 playbook about this I guess".

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I know but it seems as if it's starting to morph.

AntiZionism has always provided a lot of cover for straight up antisemitism. Not to say that all antiZionists are antisemites, but Hamas and other groups mix in the same terminology all the time. And a lot of what we’ve seen on American campuses and elsewhere is hard to describe as anything other than anti-Jewish sentiment

At the same time that mixture allows Israel to deflect criticism by conflating the two when it suits their interests.

It’s part of why the conflict is so hard to discuss- nobody can even agree on the terms of debate.

 

[livefromDC]

I'm uncomfortable with how anti-semitic this anti-Zionism is getting by people who aren't so much forgetting the past but who I suspect don't know the full breadth of the past or, worse, don't care. How am I to care more for the Palestinians than I am to care for Israelis?

I mean, I don't "remember" the Holocaust either. That was before my time (that's how long ago it was). But I know about the history because the whole world knows about the extermination of 6,000,000 souls. In fact, I know I've known about it when I was very, very young and not because I was Jewish and learned about it at home.

I want to ask all these protestors shouting "from the river to the sea" if they really REALLY know history. Not that I suspect it would matter. It's the emotion.

I'm missing something. What does from the river to the sea mean?

 

[Madmarsha]

I'm missing something. What does from the river to the sea mean?

“Between the river and the sea” is a fragment from a slogan, used since the 1960s by a variety of people with a host of purposes. And it is open to an array of interpretations, from the genocidal to the democratic.

The full saying goes: “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” – a reference to the land between the Jordan river, which borders eastern Israel, and the Mediterranean sea to the west.

The question then is what that means for Israel and the Jewish people.

Some claim the terminology is laced with genocidal intent. In 1966, the Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad, the father of the country’s current dictator, said: “We shall only accept war and the restoration of the usurped land … to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.”

‘From the river to the sea’: where does the slogan come from and what does it mean?

Andy McDonald was suspended from the Labour party for borrowing from the phrase, which some say advocates the eradication of IsraelIsrael and Hamas at war – live updates

www.theguardian.com