Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (10 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

I don't know what groups have used it, but do you see the irony? Palestine has been replaced/erased by the state of Israel over this time period.

That's not entirely true. Palestine was never a formally country/state to begin with. Certainly many Palestinians lived in what is now Israel before that territory was declared Israel in 1948. Prior to that it was a British territory and region was informally called Palestine.

The point of reference we're working from would need to be defined before we start talking about time periods. Are you going back to pre-1948?

 

[livefromDC]

I was under the impression they are. Or some are.

I can't say none are thinking it, but I don't think it's most. Perhaps that's naive but I liken it to the college kids during Vietnam. Plenty were against the war but were most violent in their disdain for the war? I don't think so. I think most college kids think Hamas should be eradicated but that Palestinians should not be marginalized.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I can't say none are thinking it, but I don't think it's most. Perhaps that's naive but I liken it to the college kids during Vietnam. Plenty were against the war but were most violent in their disdain for the war? I don't think so. I think most college kids think Hamas should be eradicated but that Palestinians should not be marginalized.

Harvard/Harris did a poll a week or so after the Oct 7 attack that showed that 18-24 year olds were much more likely to disbelieve that Hamas committed any atrocities and/or believe that the hospital explosion was an Israeli attack.

I blame a large part of that on TikTok. You click on one pro-Hamas clip and then the algorithm/hamster wheel is off and running.

OCTOBER HARVARD CAPS / HARRIS POLL: STRONG MAJORITIES OF AMERICANS SUPPORT ISRAEL AGAINST HAMAS AND U.S. POLICY ON ISRAEL

/PRNewswire/ -- Stagwell (NASDAQ: STGW) today released the results of the October Harvard CAPS / Harris poll, a monthly collaboration between the Center for...

www.prnewswire.com

SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF YOUNG VOTERS HAVE THEIR OWN FACTS, DENY ATROCITIES COMMITTED

• 17% of voters think it is a false story that Hamas terrorists killed 1200 Israeli civilians by shooting, raping and beheading people (ages 18-24: 32%; ages 65+: 10%).
• 46% of voters say that Israel, not Hamas, rules Gaza (ages 18-24: 53%; ages 65+: 32%).
• 33% of voters think the explosion at a Gaza hospital explosion was caused by an Israeli airstrike rather than a terrorist rocket that went off-course (ages 18-24: 45%; ages 65+: 13%).

 

[livefromDC]

That's not entirely true. Palestine was never a formally country/state to begin with. Certainly many Palestinians lived in what is now Israel before that territory was declared Israel in 1948. Prior to that it was a British territory and region was informally called Palestine.

The point of reference we're working from would need to be defined before we start talking about time periods. Are you going back to pre-1948?

I'm referencing where Palestinians were settled in1966 compared to now as it related to college kids using the slogan Marsha referenced. Are you saying that this area has not shrunk? I think college kids see the changing map (accurate or not) and devlop their opinions based on that. I dont think kids are developing antisemitic beliefs as much as Pro-Palestine views. Anti-Isreal? That sentiment is probably growing too though.

 

[livefromDC]

Harvard/Harris did a poll a week or so after the Oct 7 attack that showed that 18-24 year olds were much more likely to disbelieve that Hamas committed any atrocities and/or believe that the hospital explosion was an Israeli attack.

I blame a large part of that on TikTok. You click on one pro-Hamas clip and then the algorithm/hamster wheel is off and running.

OCTOBER HARVARD CAPS / HARRIS POLL: STRONG MAJORITIES OF AMERICANS SUPPORT ISRAEL AGAINST HAMAS AND U.S. POLICY ON ISRAEL

/PRNewswire/ -- Stagwell (NASDAQ: STGW) today released the results of the October Harvard CAPS / Harris poll, a monthly collaboration between the Center for...

www.prnewswire.com

SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF YOUNG VOTERS HAVE THEIR OWN FACTS, DENY ATROCITIES COMMITTED

• 17% of voters think it is a false story that Hamas terrorists killed 1200 Israeli civilians by shooting, raping and beheading people (ages 18-24: 32%; ages 65+: 10%).
• 46% of voters say that Israel, not Hamas, rules Gaza (ages 18-24: 53%; ages 65+: 32%).
• 33% of voters think the explosion at a Gaza hospital explosion was caused by an Israeli airstrike rather than a terrorist rocket that went off-course (ages 18-24: 45%; ages 65+: 13%).

I think this also illustrates how out of touch we are with 18-24 year olds. All the questions are framed around Hamas and Israel. Palestine is literally not mentioned at all in this poll. The first thing out of the mouth of my students is Palestine. There's a definite disconnect there in the conversations we are having as opposed to them. That goes on to affect the nuance through which they are answering the questions versus older Americans.

Dave, this also leads credence though to my argument in the debate we were having a week ago. These are American kids you were talking about deporting.

 

[SamAndreas]

In your view, does Israel have a right to exist?

That question to became moot on May 14, 1948. I feel it's best to deal with reality.

 

[nolaspe]

Yemen's Houthi rebels claim attacks on Israel, drawing their main sponsor Iran closer to Hamas war

Yemen’s Houthi rebels have for the first time claimed missile and drone attacks targeting Israel

abcnews.go.com

 

[SamAndreas]

I'm referencing where Palestinians were settled in1966 compared to now as it related to college kids using the slogan Marsha referenced. Are you saying that this area has not shrunk? I think college kids see the changing map (accurate or not) and devlop their opinions based on that. I dont think kids are developing antisemitic beliefs as much as Pro-Palestine views. Anti-Isreal? That sentiment is probably growing too though.

The focus I have, which I think is the real issue is the apartheid state of Israel. I don't foresee a two state solution ever becoming a fair and equitable solution, it will not become a stable lasting solution.

I'm awfully anti-apartheid.

 

[DaveXA]

I think this also illustrates how out of touch we are with 18-24 year olds. All the questions are framed around Hamas and Israel. Palestine is literally not mentioned at all in this poll. The first thing out of the mouth of my students is Palestine. There's a definite disconnect there in the conversations we are having as opposed to them. That goes on to affect the nuance through which they are answering the questions versus older Americans.

Dave, this also leads credence though to my argument in the debate we were having a week ago. These are American kids you were talking about deporting.

Let's be 100% clear, I never once said to deport American kids. And let's not re-litigate that discussion.

 

[BigFrosty]

 

[BigFrosty]

Yemen has their own problems to deal with, but...

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Yemen has their own problems to deal with, but...

The president of Yemen is living in exile in Saudi Arabia.

I assume this guy is a Houthi leader.

 

[Infoman]

The "Axis" will keep growing until Iran officially ("Proxy Russia/China/N Korea") jumps in head first.... Then what? Buckle up... Get your minds right Americans. There's a devil in the details... but there is a clear right and wrong side to be on here.

 

[livefromDC]

Let's be 100% clear, I never once said to deport American kids. And let's not re-litigate that discussion.

No, you didn't. You said if they weren't American. I'm not interested in having that argument again either. I'm merely pointing out that the data that was posted lends even more evidence that the kids involved in that incident were most likely American making deportation comments just fodder for further division.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

The "Axis" will keep growing until Iran officially ("Proxy Russia/China/N Korea") jumps in head first.... Then what? Buckle up... Get your minds right Americans. There's a devil in the details... but there is a clear right and wrong side to be on here.

I really don't think there is much chance Iran officially ever jumps in. There is absolutely no upside for them.