Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (13 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

No, you didn't. You said if they were American. I'm not interested in having that argument again either. I'm merely pointing out that the data that was posted lends even more evidence that the kids involved in that incident were most likely American making deportation comments just fodder for further division.

*weren't Americans

 

[Infoman]

I really don't think there is much chance Iran officially ever jumps in. There is absolutely no upside for them.

Radical Ideolog "god driven" Terrorists don't need an earthly upside... They just need weakness, a lack of resolve on the other side, funding, and an opportunity. All of which they believe to be in place. They are only satisfied by "The Word" - "The Victory"... Unless something changes drastically soon, I don't see them not getting directly involved - and not JUST them - (they - Iran - are already "proxy" involved for sure)... American's need to take notice. This is the nearest we've been to the actual next world war... since the cold war IMHO. The future "Axis powers" are currently and openly holding counsel while we idle and bicker... I hope it doesn't take another Peral Harbor or 9/11 before we put aside our petty differences and call this what it is, and do what needs to be done to cut it off beforehand.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Radical Ideolog "god driven" Terrorists don't need an earthly upside... They just need weakness, a lack of resolve on the other side, funding, and an opportunity. All of which they believe to be in place. Unless something changes drastically soon, I don't see them not getting directly involved - and not JUST them - (they - Iran - are already "proxy" involved for sure)... American's need to take notice. This is the nearest we've been to the actual next world war... since the cold war IMHO. The future Axis of evil is currently and openly holding counsel while we idle and bicker... I hope it doesn't take another Peral Harbor or 9/11 before we put aside our petty differences and call this what it is, and do what needs to be done to cut it off beforehand.

It's a terrible mistake to think the leaders of Iran don't behave rationally.

You can ignore what the Ayatollah says.

 

[Infoman]

It's a terrible mistake to think the leaders of Iran don't behave rationally.

You can ignore what the Ayatollah says.

Rationality is a point of view... not an absolute term... a mistake would be to think you know what rational means to the Ayatollah... and at what point the irrational becomes rational.

 

[Heathen Saint]

The "Axis" will keep growing until Iran officially ("Proxy Russia/China/N Korea") jumps in head first.... Then what? Buckle up... Get your minds right Americans. There's a devil in the details... but there is a clear right and wrong side to be on here.

Could you explain?

 

[Infoman]

Could you explain?

Thought I did... There is an Axis of power growing that despises Democracy, Freedom, and anything that resembles it... They have preformed/funded/sheltered/enabled acts of terror, and are nonchalantly firing rockets at US bases in the ME... It's all been detailed in this thread... I didn't think further explanation was needed - Should the other major players jump into the fray (and I think they are already have their foot in the door)... then there becomes a clear right and wrong side to be on.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Thought I did... There is an Axis of power growing that despises Democracy, Freedom, and anything that resembles it... They have preformed/funded/sheltered/enabled acts of terror, and are nonchalantly firing rockets at US bases in the ME... It's all been detailed in this thread... I didn't think further explanation was needed - Should the other major players jump into the fray (and I think they are already have their foot in the door)... then it becomes a clear right and wrong side to be on.

And the US hasn't? We're funding a genocidal campaign as we speak.

You're perplexed as to why anyone would be suspicious of this narrative? Really?

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

And the US hasn't? We're funding a genocidal campaign as we speak.

You're perplexed as to why anyone would be suspicious of this narrative? Really?

Can you specify which genocide the US is funding?

That word seems to have lost its original meaning unless there is something else going on I'm missing.

 

[0rion]

Can you specify which genocide the US is funding?

That word seems to have lost its original meaning unless there is something else going on I'm missing.

I'm sure he's talking about the bombing of Gaza that's killing thousands of civilians.

 

[Infoman]

Can you specify which genocide the US is funding?

That word seems to have lost its original meaning unless there is something else going on I'm missing.

The word narrative seems to have lost it's original meaning as well in sort of politico clap back context... because I am talking about actual events and what's likely to come... and not some policy what-about-ism double speak to prop up a self loathing POV... that stuff is about to become as irrelevant as what your favorite color is if they keep down the path they are on now. And I know what he thinks he's saying... but it's a simplistic POV... casualties and collateral damage of a brutal war... is tragic, but it isn't genocide.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm sure he's talking about the bombing of Gaza that's killing thousands of civilians.

OK. then say that, because that's not genocide. It's not the wholesale destruction of an ethnic or religious group.

If Israel and the US were interested in a genocidal campaign in Gaza against the Palestinians, it would have all been over a long time ago and the Palestinian population would be dust.

Just my 2 cents but Israel certainly has the means to eradicate every Palestinian in the region but chooses not to. Hamas does not (yet) have the means to eradicate every Jew in the region but has made it very clear they would if they could.

Seems like we should park the word 'genocide' during this conflict. What's happened is plenty bad, but genocide is not something that is happening.

 

[DaveXA]

And the US hasn't? We're funding a genocidal campaign as we speak.

You're perplexed as to why anyone would be suspicious of this narrative? Really?

I don't agree with what Bibi is doing, but to call it genocide is to misuse the term. Let's not exaggerate here. This is war and in wars innocent people die. That doesn't make it genocide.

Now could it become genocide? Possibly, but it's not at that point, and I don't think it will. Israel, whether you believe them or not, has already stated unequivocally that they have no interest in Gaza, and expect Palestinians from Gaza to return after they eliminate Hamas. That's not genocide.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

OK. then say that, because that's not genocide. It's not the wholesale destruction of an ethnic or religious group.

If Israel and the US were interested in a genocidal campaign in Gaza against the Palestinians, it would have all been over a long time ago and the Palestinian population would be dust.

Just my 2 cents but Israel certainly has the means to eradicate every Palestinian in the region but chooses not to. Hamas does not (yet) have the means to eradicate every Jew in the region but has made it very clear they would if they could.

Seems like we should park the word 'genocide' during this conflict. What's happened is plenty bad, but genocide is not something that is happening.

It's certainly not genocide, but If Israel ends up annexing Northern Gaza and doesn't allow the Palestinians to return to that land, then this will have been a textbook operation of ethnic cleansing. Genocide is only one method of ethnic cleansing.

 

[DaveXA]

It's certainly not genocide, but If Israel ends up annexing Northern Gaza and doesn't allow the Palestinians to return to that land, then this will have been a textbook operation of ethnic cleansing. Genocide is only one method of ethnic cleansing.

If they do that, then I won't disagree, but again Israel has already made it clear they have no interest in occupying Gaza and expect Palestinians to return home after they deal with Hamas.

Now, if one doesn't believe Israel will keep their word, then ok.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

It's certainly not genocide, but If Israel ends up annexing Northern Gaza and doesn't allow the Palestinians to return to that land, then this will have been a textbook operation of ethnic cleansing. Genocide is only one method of ethnic cleansing.

Yeah I am pretty Israel/Bibi didn't think this all the way through. I doubt the internal politics would have allowed them to take a beat to strategize for long after Oct 7, but personally I would've waited to figure out a slower path. Might've ended up in the same place anyway but the Hamas playbook of hiding among civilians means they were always going to be in an impossible situation operating full-scale inside Gaza