Law School (1 Viewer)

i went to tulane for undergrad and i'm at loyola law now. while i really like loyola, i've still got to recommend LSU, especially if you don't mind living in BR. The reason for this is because of cost. LSU is by far cheaper and i believe it's difficult to argue that Tulane or Loyola is $60,000 in loans better than LSU. If you're planning on staying in LA, then you really can't go round with any of them. LSU is just sooo much cheaper.
 
I went to a relatively expensive private law school. If you can get that scholarship to Tulane, you can probably get a full one to LSU. GO TO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL. Your class rank is more important than which school you go to.

i completely agree with this statement. being number one in your class at southern is better than being number 50 at tulane.
 
If you're going to continue to practice law in Louisiana, LSU is a great program. If you're going to another state, go with Tulane. I've always seen Loyola law school grads considered third after LSU & Tulane when recruiting for large law firms. Whatever you choose, do your best to stay in the top 10% of your class. Good luck.
 
I don't think it's a fear of competition so much as an acknowledgment that a significant number of law school applicants don't really understand the drawbacks of the career they're signing up for. Add to that the fact that many people graduate with too much debt to get out if they really don't enjoy the profession.

I haven't even graduated yet and I've already seen a number of my friends significantly change their career plans after getting just a minimal taste of life in a big law firm (to be fair, this could also easily apply to me, although I never intended to work in a big firm and, mainly due to age-difference, my goals were less well-defined than theirs). Firm life can be stressful and many of us didn't appreciate just how mindblowingly awful the paperwork can become (and this is as summer associates whose primary responsibilities center around deciding where to have lunch and what firm activities to participate in).

I think most of us (with some obvious and somewhat tragic exceptions) understood the general downsides to the lifestyle, e.g. the long hours, the tedium, the egos. What very few of us (myself included) didn't completely understand -- and are still miles from fully appreciating -- are the small, needling aggravations of the job. One thing I didn't appreciate going in was how obnoxious it can be to constantly have people doing things for the sole purpose of making your life difficult (these are variously referred to as "Opposing Counsel" and "Third-Year Associates").

The upside is that the field is broad and full of variation. Just thinking of 4 of my good friends up here. Next year, one will be a compliance inspector for Vermont's department of agriculture, another is going JAG, a third will be working for the Orange County prosecutor's office, and the fourth is going to business school. If you would've asked all 5 of us what we thought we'd be doing at graduation back when we started 1L year, I guarantee you all 5 of us would've said something like "First year associate at a small/medium-sized firm in City X." I don't think we're at all unique.

That being said, none of us fully appreciated what we were getting into, and, while I don't think any of us has even a little regret about deciding to go to law school, we could've benefitted a lot from a clearer vision of the profession.


Great post. I now officially have no regrets about not going to law school. :hihi:
 
If you're going to continue to practice law in Louisiana, LSU is a great program. If you're going to another state, go with Tulane. I've always seen Loyola law school grads considered third after LSU & Tulane when recruiting for large law firms. Whatever you choose, do your best to stay in the top 10% of your class. Good luck.
This is terrible advice. Look at the incoming associates at Adams & Reese, Jones Walker, Phelps Dunbar, and pretty much any other big firm in NOLA and you'll see minimum 50% are from Loyola. Most likely more.

If a big firm is even what you're looking for.
 
This is terrible advice. Look at the incoming associates at Adams & Reese, Jones Walker, Phelps Dunbar, and pretty much any other big firm in NOLA and you'll see minimum 50% are from Loyola. Most likely more.

If a big firm is even what you're looking for.


this is correct

Some of the larger firms actually don't put as much effort into recruiting from Tulane because they are usually out of state folks that go elsewhere.
 
I think one thing to consider is the average starting salary for students from each law school. I don't know about Tulane's numbers, but as a higher-ranked school than LSU or Loyola, there's a possibility that their graduates get jobs at better firms and make better initial salaries. I completely disagree with the earlier poster who said you should go to the cheapest school. Sometimes the more expensive school also has a much higher starting salary for its graduates, which means that you'll be able to pay off those loans within a few years and be making a lot more money than you would have if you had gone to a cheaper school.

But like JE said, this may not be as big an issue if you aren't going to one of the top 15 law schools in the country. But still, you may want to do some research into average starting salaries.
 
if I say Loyola, and it turns out you cant find a position you want, will you sue me? :)
 
Since it's Mardi Gras time and yesterday's Rex is a Tulane law school grad, I thought I'd post this link. Yes, Tulane offers a diversity of students from around the country/world than is greater than the public school. However, there are plenty of students who are Louisianian or from Louisianian roots.

http://www.nola.com/mardigras/index.ssf/2008/02/john_koerner_iii_reigns_as_rex.html

Koerner sits on the boards of Legg Mason Inc., Lamar Advertising Co., St. Charles Pharmaceuticals, Finetooth Inc. and Selltis.

At Tulane, where he earned undergraduate and law degrees and a master's degree in business administration, he was chairman of the university's governing body. He also led the Dean's Council at the A.B. Freeman School of Business. Tulane alumni do have a certain feeling of "family".

Just think about: Maple Leaf, Rock n Bowl, Carrolton Station, etc., etc., available whenever you happen to have the free time.

Good luck!
 
I think one thing to consider is the average starting salary for students from each law school. I don't know about Tulane's numbers, but as a higher-ranked school than LSU or Loyola, there's a possibility that their graduates get jobs at better firms and make better initial salaries. I completely disagree with the earlier poster who said you should go to the cheapest school. Sometimes the more expensive school also has a much higher starting salary for its graduates, which means that you'll be able to pay off those loans within a few years and be making a lot more money than you would have if you had gone to a cheaper school.

But like JE said, this may not be as big an issue if you aren't going to one of the top 15 law schools in the country. But still, you may want to do some research into average starting salaries.


Well those average numbers may get a little skewed because of where graduates go. Plenty of folks from Tulane go to DC and NY which both have much higher salaries. However, as a general rule most firms pay the same to all incoming new hires regardless of where you went. Otherwise two new associates with the same jobs would be paid differently and that would cause a lot of problems. As far as the highest paying jobs, at least in NO, those go more on you individual class ranking and grades than if you went to Loyola, LSU, or Tulane. Pick a school and bust your butt, that is the best way to have the most options coming out of school.
 
Three last comments:

1. The professions, especially law, are not the same certain route to career success and security that they once were. There was a piece about two weeks ago in the Sunday New York Times discussing this, and you may wish to google it. Regarding the legal profession, about 20 years ago, the supply of lawyers began to exceed the demand for legal services, changing greatly the economics of the profession. And keep in mind that the trend in American society over the past 25 years has been to reduce the need for legal services and lawyers.

2. I have told other young people that, unless they have a great desire to be a lawyer, do not go to law school. It is hard, it is boring, it is three years, and it is expensive. If you think being a lawyer is your passion, go for it. Otherwise, think twice, and read the numerous articles about lawyer dissatisfaction, especially among young lawyers working in large firms.

3. Your success as a lawyer will depend much, much less on where you went to school than what you put into your education and your practice after graduation. A superior class ranking from LSU or either of the New Orleans law schools will trump which Louisiana law school you graduated from in.your initial job seach.
 
2. I have told other young people that, unless they have a great desire to be a lawyer, do not go to law school. It is hard, it is boring, it is three years, and it is expensive. If you think being a lawyer is your passion, go for it. Otherwise, think twice, and read the numerous articles about lawyer dissatisfaction, especially among young lawyers working in large firms.

Not to mention that lawyers as a whole have one of the highest rates of substance abuse among all professionals.


3. Your success as a lawyer will depend much, much less on where you went to school than what you put into your education and your practice after graduation. A superior class ranking from LSU or either of the New Orleans law schools will trump which Louisiana law school you graduated from in.your initial job seach.

:yes:
 
From a Tulane law grad- If finaces aren't an issue, the real question is what are you interested in? If you have ambitions of a more nationalized practice (federal laws like ERISA or civil rights or con law, etc.) or envision leaving Louisiana, Tulane is probably the right choice.

If you envision a general practice in La. or a practice that does a particular kind of law that is state law (personal injury, land/property, family law or trusts and estates) both Loyola and LSU are excellent choices. Loyola might be more beneficial in the immediate NOLA area and LSU for the rest of the state. (But that's no "rule" by any means). Since you said Lafayette, LSU might be the right call.

Also, there are specialties. If you are interested in maritime or environmental law, Tulane is exellent in those areas. But LSU and Loyola excel in other areas.

The nice thing is that all three are good law schools- so you can't really go wrong. Another thing to remember, though, is that LSU is very competitive within your class. Unless things have changed, they actually "drop" a percentage of the class after the first year. So if it takes you a while to "get it" in law school (some people take longer, but eventually most everyone gets it) you might find yourself struggling to stay in LSU.

Loyola and Tulane aren't like that. Get in, pay your bills and unless you fail out, you'll be able to continue.

IMO.
Good luck with your decision!
 
Three last comments:

1. The professions, especially law, are not the same certain route to career success and security that they once were. There was a piece about two weeks ago in the Sunday New York Times discussing this, and you may wish to google it. Regarding the legal profession, about 20 years ago, the supply of lawyers began to exceed the demand for legal services, changing greatly the economics of the profession. And keep in mind that the trend in American society over the past 25 years has been to reduce the need for legal services and lawyers.

2. I have told other young people that, unless they have a great desire to be a lawyer, do not go to law school. It is hard, it is boring, it is three years, and it is expensive. If you think being a lawyer is your passion, go for it. Otherwise, think twice, and read the numerous articles about lawyer dissatisfaction, especially among young lawyers working in large firms.

3. Your success as a lawyer will depend much, much less on where you went to school than what you put into your education and your practice after graduation. A superior class ranking from LSU or either of the New Orleans law schools will trump which Louisiana law school you graduated from in.your initial job seach.

While I understand the sentiment here, I just wanted to comment that I think the idea that "law school = lawyer" is a bit myopic. There are many many careers that law school grads pursue that do not amount to that person being a lawyer.

In my opinion, a good law school experience isn't about learning law. The law is a vast universe and one that is rarely mastered in a lifetime, much less 3 years. Instead, I believe that law school is about learning the competing interests and philosophy behind what makes effective legal constructs. This is where you begin to understand the law and the why rather than the how. At that level, the law student is equipped to enter the commercial world and adapt. Whether that setting is in a lawfirm, in government, or in the many, many places that lawyers find rewarding work in the commercial world, not as practicing attorneys.

One thing you realize 9 months into the practice of law is that you learned very little in law school. You'll learn more about an area of law in one month working on a case or matter than you did in a whole semester of law school.

I only went to one law school - so I can't opine about the others. But I believe that at Tulane, there is an emphasis on this kind of learning. An academic setting that isn't necessarily geared towards teaching you to be a robotic practicioner - but rather preparing you to be capable of taking the issues before you and, with some thought and research, breaking them down, understanding them and then formulating the best strategy to proceed given the relevant interests at hand.

If that kind of thing stimulates you, you're making a good choice.
 
Personal experience -- I went to LSU, graduated in '86, had a kick-*** LSAT score, and was accepted to the 4 schools where I applied: Tulane, LSU, Loyola and Ole Miss. Tulane ponied up a scholarship, but it wasn't quite enough to make Tulane competitive with the rest. Ole Miss and LSU didn't offer money. Loyola offered scholarship/grant and student job package, which made it about equal to LSU. Plus I wanted (at the time) to get back to N.O., so I selected Loyola.

After about a couple of months or so there, I really regretted my decision. Loyola's Law School is in its own isolated building several blocks from the main campus. Clannish, cliqueish locals seemed to dominate the student scene. There were a few out-of-towners, but for the most part I got the sense that most of the people were in a mentality of worrying about class rank in the first year, and didn't want to help one another out, as that might give someone else "a leg up". At any rate, I made the best of it for the first semester, and did okay, but by then my heart wasn't in it. I looked into other options, and after being awarded a full fellowship to graduate school at Georgia Tech, withdrew from Loyola early in my second semester.

Compare to a couple of friends I know who went to LSU and Tulane shortly after I went to Loyola. They both told me about a better sense of camraderie, that virtually everyone was involved in study groups, that they were "all in it together". Professors were approachable and although the work was tough, the professors were fair. And they and their fellow students socialized a lot and got to know one another quite well, making connections that they each still rely on today. Both got jobs right after graduation in New Orleans, and both went on to bigger and better jobs in Washington, DC later.

Again-- this is a while back (late 80s/early 90s) but if I had to do it all over again, I'd have gone to LSU.
 
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