Law School (2 Viewers)

[Broad St. Saint]

If you can stomach economics, you should take a look at this picture, and the blog there.

http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/09/distribution-of.html

Basically, the legal job market in America is bimodal (plotting salaries versus number of people getting those salaries looks like a two-humped camel).

The problem is that the folks clumped in the lower hump (large # at the low salary peak) have trouble paying back their law school tuition loans. So it's not a great idea to go to a high-priced private school and then wind up in the lower hump. That's a vote for LSU all the way, unless one gets a lot of scholarship $$ at the private schools.

However, Tulane, alone of the 3 schools, gives you the best opportunity to be in the higher hump -- it's probably the best, but by no means sure, ticket to a national level paycheck at a well-known firm in Houston or Atlanta or DC, with the $160K to start that that carries. If that's what you might want, or might want 3 years from now after you hypothetically meet the Georgia Peach of your dreams, well, then the vote is for Tulane.

I'm not sure I see the case for Loyola based on a price/performance analysis.

 

[SaintsFan11]

That's a vote for LSU all the way, unless one gets a lot of scholarship $$ at the private schools.

I got a scholarship to Tulane which puts it on equal footing with LSU in terms of price. That's why I even have a decision to make at all. Before I heard from Tulane, I was pretty much set on going to LSU if I got in because Tulane isn't worth it for the cost.

To all of the lawyers who have responded or might be looking: If cost was not a factor, where would you have gone to law school out of Tulane, LSU and Loyola?

To those who went to Tulane: How competitive was/is it? If class rank is so important, what are one's prospects for placing well? It doesn't seem to me that Tulane pulls in students who are that much better than LSU.

 

[UptownSaintsFan]

if money is no issue, i say tulane. that by far gives you the most flexibility as you will be going to a school that has a greater name abroad. but all being said, all that really matters is your rank. in LA if all someone from all 3 schools has the same rank, i think an employer will decide based on personality, not school. however, that would not be the case, in my opinion, when interviewing w/someone from out of town.

 

[superchuck500]

To those who went to Tulane: How competitive was/is it? If class rank is so important, what are one's prospects for placing well? It doesn't seem to me that Tulane pulls in students who are that much better than LSU.

My class at Tulane was 20% Louisiana people. I bet the number at LSU is much much much higher. Tulane is a national law school (which is why you don't have the same focus on Louisiana law there) and as such, you will get people from all over ... people from Ivy league schools and people from small regional universities you've never heard of.

That makes for a more diverse student population, but it doesn't necessarily mean its going to be better students. While most LSU students are probably from Louisiana, they're no less talented. And there's probably students there from Ivy League schools and regional universities you've never heard of - they just came home to La. to go to law school.

Law school is a competitive place at the top. It isn't going to be any "easier" to place in the top 10% at any of the three schools. Personally, I think I was more capable than many of the students in the top 10% of my class- but they just simply worked very very hard to get there and I didn't work as hard. It doesn't matter who you are - the chances are that if you really want to be in the top of your class you're going to have to work your *** off to get it.

That being said, most of the people in my class at Tulane got jobs. People in the middle of the pack got decent positions with decent pay. It was a better job market at that time, however.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

This guy went to Tulane Law School-- so they've got that going for them:



"TULANE LAW SCHOOL, New Orleans, LA.

J.D., May 1999: Civil Law Curriculum; summer studies in Siena Italy, 1998
President: Tulane Jewish Law Student Association
Student Practitioner: Civil Advocacy Clinic, 1999
Certificate of Completion in Mediation Training: Mediation Seminar, 1998
Performed over 1000 hours (143 certified law related) Community Service, 1997-1999"

http://www.compulsivecreations.com/v...ein/index.html


"Lawyer accused of attempted rape

Police find suitcase with sex toys, car trunk with whip, hay, plastic hoops Hula Hoops

Advocate Florida parishes bureau
Published: Feb 7, 2008 - Page: 8B

COVINGTON – A New Orleans lawyer sporting a purple cape, top hat and carrying a suitcase full of sex toys who visited a 24-year-old house-sitter has been arrested on counts of attempted rape and other crimes, police said.

Lawrence J. Goldstein, 40, 1020 St. Claude Ave., New Orleans, attacked the woman early Monday, ripping her clothes off, torturing her, and forcing her to inhale “laughing gas” and smoke marijuana, Covington police said in a statement Tuesday.

Goldstein, who had sprayed the upper half of his body pink and sprinkled it with glitter, also brought a canister of nitrous oxide, known as laughing gas, police said.

The woman had her 6-month-old infant with her and went along with Goldstein’s demands, thinking he would calm down. After several rape attempts, she escaped to make a frantic 911 call about 3:30 a.m. Monday, police said."

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60744

 

[SaintJ]

Not to mention that lawyers as a whole have one of the highest rates of substance abuse among all professionals.

You make this almost sound like a negative. :dunno:

 

[Hoyasaint]

You make this almost sound like a negative. :dunno:

Most I know have been doing just fine with their substance abuse, others can't always handle it. I just feel sorry for those people.

 

[JimEverett]

This guy went to Tulane Law School-- so they've got that going for them:



"TULANE LAW SCHOOL, New Orleans, LA.

J.D., May 1999: Civil Law Curriculum; summer studies in Siena Italy, 1998
President: Tulane Jewish Law Student Association
Student Practitioner: Civil Advocacy Clinic, 1999
Certificate of Completion in Mediation Training: Mediation Seminar, 1998
Performed over 1000 hours (143 certified law related) Community Service, 1997-1999"

http://www.compulsivecreations.com/v...ein/index.html


"Lawyer accused of attempted rape

Police find suitcase with sex toys, car trunk with whip, hay, plastic hoops Hula Hoops

Advocate Florida parishes bureau
Published: Feb 7, 2008 - Page: 8B

COVINGTON – A New Orleans lawyer sporting a purple cape, top hat and carrying a suitcase full of sex toys who visited a 24-year-old house-sitter has been arrested on counts of attempted rape and other crimes, police said.

Lawrence J. Goldstein, 40, 1020 St. Claude Ave., New Orleans, attacked the woman early Monday, ripping her clothes off, torturing her, and forcing her to inhale “laughing gas” and smoke marijuana, Covington police said in a statement Tuesday.

Goldstein, who had sprayed the upper half of his body pink and sprinkled it with glitter, also brought a canister of nitrous oxide, known as laughing gas, police said.

The woman had her 6-month-old infant with her and went along with Goldstein’s demands, thinking he would calm down. After several rape attempts, she escaped to make a frantic 911 call about 3:30 a.m. Monday, police said."

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60744

The legendary Dean Kramer at Tulane used to tell us that no law school in the country had as many graduates lose their law license for disciplinary reasons as Tulane. Not sure how true it is, but we try to keep the Louisiana spirit alive in any way we can.

 

[st dude]

The legendary Dean Kramer at Tulane used to tell us that no law school in the country had as many graduates lose their law license for disciplinary reasons as Tulane. Not sure how true it is, but we try to keep the Louisiana spirit alive in any way we can.

Well I certainly hope he doesnt lose his license for a little thing like painting himself pink, wearing a purple cape, smoking dope, huffing nitrous, packing sex toys, and attempted rape of a housesitter.

Sounds like your regular ole party animal to me. It could happen to anybody. Just the other day I was out sporting my purple cape when...........

 

[SaintsFan11]

Just thought I'd let y'all know my decision.

I'm going to Tulane.

It will be a little more expensive because LSU gave me a scholarship, but we're not talking about a whole lot in the long run because LSU requires you to go an extra semester, and I probably would have gone to the LSU France program.

In the end, the opportunity to be in New Orleans was pretty much the biggest factor, especially after Katrina with all of the opportunities for public service through the law school. It's also a huge judicial center, with every court save the US Supreme Court.

My ability to place highly in my class probably won't differ at either LSU or Tulane, since my problem tends to be laziness rather than being outperformed.

Another factor was the professionalism I saw at Tulane. Their career development office was really impressive, and the opportunity to work (paid) during my first summer was enticing.

Finally, Tulane beat LSU handily this year in the La. bar passage rate (by 8 points I think). I'm not really concerned about the bar, or rather concerned enough to make my decision based on bar passage rates, but apparently there is a big rivalry. Take that, LSU.

In the end, it came down to quality of life for me. LSU is a great school and I was all set to go there, but I just think there are more opportunities (even for someone who wants to practice in Louisiana, specifically Lafayette) at Tulane.

 

[efil4stnias]

Just thought I'd let y'all know my decision.

I'm going to Tulane.

It will be a little more expensive because LSU gave me a scholarship, but we're not talking about a whole lot in the long run because LSU requires you to go an extra semester, and I probably would have gone to the LSU France program.

In the end, the opportunity to be in New Orleans was pretty much the biggest factor, especially after Katrina with all of the opportunities for public service through the law school. It's also a huge judicial center, with every court save the US Supreme Court.

My ability to place highly in my class probably won't differ at either LSU or Tulane, since my problem tends to be laziness rather than being outperformed.

Another factor was the professionalism I saw at Tulane. Their career development office was really impressive, and the opportunity to work (paid) during my first summer was enticing.

Finally, Tulane beat LSU handily this year in the La. bar passage rate (by 8 points I think). I'm not really concerned about the bar, or rather concerned enough to make my decision based on bar passage rates, but apparently there is a big rivalry. Take that, LSU.

In the end, it came down to quality of life for me. LSU is a great school and I was all set to go there, but I just think there are more opportunities (even for someone who wants to practice in Louisiana, specifically Lafayette) at Tulane.

good luck. happy lawyer-ing....

 

[DavidM]

I wish you well.

 

[Sardonios]

Just thought I'd let y'all know my decision.

I'm going to Tulane.

It will be a little more expensive because LSU gave me a scholarship, but we're not talking about a whole lot in the long run because LSU requires you to go an extra semester, and I probably would have gone to the LSU France program.

In the end, the opportunity to be in New Orleans was pretty much the biggest factor, especially after Katrina with all of the opportunities for public service through the law school. It's also a huge judicial center, with every court save the US Supreme Court.

My ability to place highly in my class probably won't differ at either LSU or Tulane, since my problem tends to be laziness rather than being outperformed.

Another factor was the professionalism I saw at Tulane. Their career development office was really impressive, and the opportunity to work (paid) during my first summer was enticing.

Finally, Tulane beat LSU handily this year in the La. bar passage rate (by 8 points I think). I'm not really concerned about the bar, or rather concerned enough to make my decision based on bar passage rates, but apparently there is a big rivalry. Take that, LSU.

In the end, it came down to quality of life for me. LSU is a great school and I was all set to go there, but I just think there are more opportunities (even for someone who wants to practice in Louisiana, specifically Lafayette) at Tulane.

Congratulations, SaintsFan11. Tulane's got a great program and I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice in the long run.

If you don't mind a few bits of advice from someone who's finishing up the three years you're about to start:

1) Don't read One-L. Everyone tells you to read it during the summer before you go to law school so you know what you're in for. Don't. Law school these days isn't very similar to the experience Turow describes. The book will just make you worry needlessly.

2) Read "The Brethren." It's not exceptionally helpful in exam-prep or anything like that, but it's a very interesting book and it really put a lot of Con Law into context for me when I read it.

3) Download old exams and do them. Start really doing them 2-3 weeks before your exams. Getting to Maybe, prep books, nutshells all pale in comparison to the advantage you gain practicing on old tests, especially 1L year. Try to mimic the methods of argument that you see in your cases -- I think this is the fastest way to learn how to take law school exams. Also -- and this'll save you the $100 I spent on law school guides -- the only important piece of information contained in all of those law school prep books is this: the argument is way, way, way more important than the answer.

4) Try to identify the core material of the course and learn it cold. In my experience, it's better to know 60% of the material stone cold than have a "decent" grasp of all of it. Don't start trying to narrow it down until you've caught your breath during your first semester.

5) Make friends with 2Ls, especially if they're on law review. They'll hand over their outlines pretty willingly, and those are a fantastic resource. If you have a class that you don't have a 2L's outline for, find someone who does. They'll almost always be willing to trade.

6) Don't talk to 3Ls. We're not nice people.

7) Don't date anyone in your section first year. 1Ls are like high schoolers; it's a weird phenomenon.

and

8) Make as many nerdy law jokes as possible 1L year. This is the first and last time they'll be funny. Bonus points for cringe-worthy puns.

 

[St. Widge]

Just thought I'd let y'all know my decision.

I'm going to Tulane.

It will be a little more expensive because LSU gave me a scholarship, but we're not talking about a whole lot in the long run because LSU requires you to go an extra semester, and I probably would have gone to the LSU France program.

In the end, the opportunity to be in New Orleans was pretty much the biggest factor, especially after Katrina with all of the opportunities for public service through the law school. It's also a huge judicial center, with every court save the US Supreme Court.

My ability to place highly in my class probably won't differ at either LSU or Tulane, since my problem tends to be laziness rather than being outperformed.

Another factor was the professionalism I saw at Tulane. Their career development office was really impressive, and the opportunity to work (paid) during my first summer was enticing.

Finally, Tulane beat LSU handily this year in the La. bar passage rate (by 8 points I think). I'm not really concerned about the bar, or rather concerned enough to make my decision based on bar passage rates, but apparently there is a big rivalry. Take that, LSU.

In the end, it came down to quality of life for me. LSU is a great school and I was all set to go there, but I just think there are more opportunities (even for someone who wants to practice in Louisiana, specifically Lafayette) at Tulane.

Well, the better decision would have been to not go to law school at all , but Tulane is a fine school.

Anyway, if your issue was being able to work for pay your first summer, you can do that at LSU. Several people I know clerked at New Orleans firms and went to Loyola Summer School or they clerked at a Baton Rouge firm.

But, you are right about the quality of the LSU career development office. It's better now than it was when I was there, but it still isn't good.

Finally, as an LSU Law grad, I'm embarrassed at the level of the bar passage rate. LSU won that by many percentage points for many years in a row. But, at some point, LSU moved to more kind and gentle teaching method. That really hurt the standards and bar passage rate. But, you are right, that rate is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Your enemy in law school and passing the bar will be personal laziness. I know this well since I was the same way in law school. But, I passed the bar on the first shot so I'm sure you will to no matter what school you go to.

 

[St. Widge]

7) Don't date anyone in your section first year. 1Ls are like high schoolers; it's a weird phenomenon.

Heh, I met my wife at LSU law. We were in the same section as 1 L's. But, you are right, it is like high school. Everyone knows everyone's business.