Law School (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

From a Tulane law grad- If finaces aren't an issue, the real question is what are you interested in? If you have ambitions of a more nationalized practice (federal laws like ERISA or civil rights or con law, etc.) or envision leaving Louisiana, Tulane is probably the right choice.

If you envision a general practice in La. or a practice that does a particular kind of law that is state law (personal injury, land/property, family law or trusts and estates) both Loyola and LSU are excellent choices. Loyola might be more beneficial in the immediate NOLA area and LSU for the rest of the state. (But that's no "rule" by any means). Since you said Lafayette, LSU might be the right call.

Also, there are specialties. If you are interested in maritime or environmental law, Tulane is exellent in those areas. But LSU and Loyola excel in other areas.

The nice thing is that all three are good law schools- so you can't really go wrong. Another thing to remember, though, is that LSU is very competitive within your class. Unless things have changed, they actually "drop" a percentage of the class after the first year. So if it takes you a while to "get it" in law school (some people take longer, but eventually most everyone gets it) you might find yourself struggling to stay in LSU.

Loyola and Tulane aren't like that. Get in, pay your bills and unless you fail out, you'll be able to continue.

IMO.
Good luck with your decision!

 

[superchuck500]

Three last comments:

1. The professions, especially law, are not the same certain route to career success and security that they once were. There was a piece about two weeks ago in the Sunday New York Times discussing this, and you may wish to google it. Regarding the legal profession, about 20 years ago, the supply of lawyers began to exceed the demand for legal services, changing greatly the economics of the profession. And keep in mind that the trend in American society over the past 25 years has been to reduce the need for legal services and lawyers.

2. I have told other young people that, unless they have a great desire to be a lawyer, do not go to law school. It is hard, it is boring, it is three years, and it is expensive. If you think being a lawyer is your passion, go for it. Otherwise, think twice, and read the numerous articles about lawyer dissatisfaction, especially among young lawyers working in large firms.

3. Your success as a lawyer will depend much, much less on where you went to school than what you put into your education and your practice after graduation. A superior class ranking from LSU or either of the New Orleans law schools will trump which Louisiana law school you graduated from in.your initial job seach.

While I understand the sentiment here, I just wanted to comment that I think the idea that "law school = lawyer" is a bit myopic. There are many many careers that law school grads pursue that do not amount to that person being a lawyer.

In my opinion, a good law school experience isn't about learning law. The law is a vast universe and one that is rarely mastered in a lifetime, much less 3 years. Instead, I believe that law school is about learning the competing interests and philosophy behind what makes effective legal constructs. This is where you begin to understand the law and the why rather than the how. At that level, the law student is equipped to enter the commercial world and adapt. Whether that setting is in a lawfirm, in government, or in the many, many places that lawyers find rewarding work in the commercial world, not as practicing attorneys.

One thing you realize 9 months into the practice of law is that you learned very little in law school. You'll learn more about an area of law in one month working on a case or matter than you did in a whole semester of law school.

I only went to one law school - so I can't opine about the others. But I believe that at Tulane, there is an emphasis on this kind of learning. An academic setting that isn't necessarily geared towards teaching you to be a robotic practicioner - but rather preparing you to be capable of taking the issues before you and, with some thought and research, breaking them down, understanding them and then formulating the best strategy to proceed given the relevant interests at hand.

If that kind of thing stimulates you, you're making a good choice.

 

[B-Rich]

Personal experience -- I went to LSU, graduated in '86, had a kick-*** LSAT score, and was accepted to the 4 schools where I applied: Tulane, LSU, Loyola and Ole Miss. Tulane ponied up a scholarship, but it wasn't quite enough to make Tulane competitive with the rest. Ole Miss and LSU didn't offer money. Loyola offered scholarship/grant and student job package, which made it about equal to LSU. Plus I wanted (at the time) to get back to N.O., so I selected Loyola.

After about a couple of months or so there, I really regretted my decision. Loyola's Law School is in its own isolated building several blocks from the main campus. Clannish, cliqueish locals seemed to dominate the student scene. There were a few out-of-towners, but for the most part I got the sense that most of the people were in a mentality of worrying about class rank in the first year, and didn't want to help one another out, as that might give someone else "a leg up". At any rate, I made the best of it for the first semester, and did okay, but by then my heart wasn't in it. I looked into other options, and after being awarded a full fellowship to graduate school at Georgia Tech, withdrew from Loyola early in my second semester.

Compare to a couple of friends I know who went to LSU and Tulane shortly after I went to Loyola. They both told me about a better sense of camraderie, that virtually everyone was involved in study groups, that they were "all in it together". Professors were approachable and although the work was tough, the professors were fair. And they and their fellow students socialized a lot and got to know one another quite well, making connections that they each still rely on today. Both got jobs right after graduation in New Orleans, and both went on to bigger and better jobs in Washington, DC later.

Again-- this is a while back (late 80s/early 90s) but if I had to do it all over again, I'd have gone to LSU.

 

[Broad St. Saint]

If you can stomach economics, you should take a look at this picture, and the blog there.

http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/09/distribution-of.html

Basically, the legal job market in America is bimodal (plotting salaries versus number of people getting those salaries looks like a two-humped camel).

The problem is that the folks clumped in the lower hump (large # at the low salary peak) have trouble paying back their law school tuition loans. So it's not a great idea to go to a high-priced private school and then wind up in the lower hump. That's a vote for LSU all the way, unless one gets a lot of scholarship $$ at the private schools.

However, Tulane, alone of the 3 schools, gives you the best opportunity to be in the higher hump -- it's probably the best, but by no means sure, ticket to a national level paycheck at a well-known firm in Houston or Atlanta or DC, with the $160K to start that that carries. If that's what you might want, or might want 3 years from now after you hypothetically meet the Georgia Peach of your dreams, well, then the vote is for Tulane.

I'm not sure I see the case for Loyola based on a price/performance analysis.

 

[SaintsFan11]

That's a vote for LSU all the way, unless one gets a lot of scholarship $$ at the private schools.

I got a scholarship to Tulane which puts it on equal footing with LSU in terms of price. That's why I even have a decision to make at all. Before I heard from Tulane, I was pretty much set on going to LSU if I got in because Tulane isn't worth it for the cost.

To all of the lawyers who have responded or might be looking: If cost was not a factor, where would you have gone to law school out of Tulane, LSU and Loyola?

To those who went to Tulane: How competitive was/is it? If class rank is so important, what are one's prospects for placing well? It doesn't seem to me that Tulane pulls in students who are that much better than LSU.

 

[UptownSaintsFan]

if money is no issue, i say tulane. that by far gives you the most flexibility as you will be going to a school that has a greater name abroad. but all being said, all that really matters is your rank. in LA if all someone from all 3 schools has the same rank, i think an employer will decide based on personality, not school. however, that would not be the case, in my opinion, when interviewing w/someone from out of town.

 

[superchuck500]

To those who went to Tulane: How competitive was/is it? If class rank is so important, what are one's prospects for placing well? It doesn't seem to me that Tulane pulls in students who are that much better than LSU.

My class at Tulane was 20% Louisiana people. I bet the number at LSU is much much much higher. Tulane is a national law school (which is why you don't have the same focus on Louisiana law there) and as such, you will get people from all over ... people from Ivy league schools and people from small regional universities you've never heard of.

That makes for a more diverse student population, but it doesn't necessarily mean its going to be better students. While most LSU students are probably from Louisiana, they're no less talented. And there's probably students there from Ivy League schools and regional universities you've never heard of - they just came home to La. to go to law school.

Law school is a competitive place at the top. It isn't going to be any "easier" to place in the top 10% at any of the three schools. Personally, I think I was more capable than many of the students in the top 10% of my class- but they just simply worked very very hard to get there and I didn't work as hard. It doesn't matter who you are - the chances are that if you really want to be in the top of your class you're going to have to work your *** off to get it.

That being said, most of the people in my class at Tulane got jobs. People in the middle of the pack got decent positions with decent pay. It was a better job market at that time, however.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

This guy went to Tulane Law School-- so they've got that going for them:



"TULANE LAW SCHOOL, New Orleans, LA.

J.D., May 1999: Civil Law Curriculum; summer studies in Siena Italy, 1998
President: Tulane Jewish Law Student Association
Student Practitioner: Civil Advocacy Clinic, 1999
Certificate of Completion in Mediation Training: Mediation Seminar, 1998
Performed over 1000 hours (143 certified law related) Community Service, 1997-1999"

http://www.compulsivecreations.com/v...ein/index.html


"Lawyer accused of attempted rape

Police find suitcase with sex toys, car trunk with whip, hay, plastic hoops Hula Hoops

Advocate Florida parishes bureau
Published: Feb 7, 2008 - Page: 8B

COVINGTON – A New Orleans lawyer sporting a purple cape, top hat and carrying a suitcase full of sex toys who visited a 24-year-old house-sitter has been arrested on counts of attempted rape and other crimes, police said.

Lawrence J. Goldstein, 40, 1020 St. Claude Ave., New Orleans, attacked the woman early Monday, ripping her clothes off, torturing her, and forcing her to inhale “laughing gas” and smoke marijuana, Covington police said in a statement Tuesday.

Goldstein, who had sprayed the upper half of his body pink and sprinkled it with glitter, also brought a canister of nitrous oxide, known as laughing gas, police said.

The woman had her 6-month-old infant with her and went along with Goldstein’s demands, thinking he would calm down. After several rape attempts, she escaped to make a frantic 911 call about 3:30 a.m. Monday, police said."

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60744

 

[SaintJ]

Not to mention that lawyers as a whole have one of the highest rates of substance abuse among all professionals.

You make this almost sound like a negative. :dunno:

 

[Hoyasaint]

You make this almost sound like a negative. :dunno:

Most I know have been doing just fine with their substance abuse, others can't always handle it. I just feel sorry for those people.

 

[JimEverett]

This guy went to Tulane Law School-- so they've got that going for them:



"TULANE LAW SCHOOL, New Orleans, LA.

J.D., May 1999: Civil Law Curriculum; summer studies in Siena Italy, 1998
President: Tulane Jewish Law Student Association
Student Practitioner: Civil Advocacy Clinic, 1999
Certificate of Completion in Mediation Training: Mediation Seminar, 1998
Performed over 1000 hours (143 certified law related) Community Service, 1997-1999"

http://www.compulsivecreations.com/v...ein/index.html


"Lawyer accused of attempted rape

Police find suitcase with sex toys, car trunk with whip, hay, plastic hoops Hula Hoops

Advocate Florida parishes bureau
Published: Feb 7, 2008 - Page: 8B

COVINGTON – A New Orleans lawyer sporting a purple cape, top hat and carrying a suitcase full of sex toys who visited a 24-year-old house-sitter has been arrested on counts of attempted rape and other crimes, police said.

Lawrence J. Goldstein, 40, 1020 St. Claude Ave., New Orleans, attacked the woman early Monday, ripping her clothes off, torturing her, and forcing her to inhale “laughing gas” and smoke marijuana, Covington police said in a statement Tuesday.

Goldstein, who had sprayed the upper half of his body pink and sprinkled it with glitter, also brought a canister of nitrous oxide, known as laughing gas, police said.

The woman had her 6-month-old infant with her and went along with Goldstein’s demands, thinking he would calm down. After several rape attempts, she escaped to make a frantic 911 call about 3:30 a.m. Monday, police said."

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60744

The legendary Dean Kramer at Tulane used to tell us that no law school in the country had as many graduates lose their law license for disciplinary reasons as Tulane. Not sure how true it is, but we try to keep the Louisiana spirit alive in any way we can.

 

[st dude]

The legendary Dean Kramer at Tulane used to tell us that no law school in the country had as many graduates lose their law license for disciplinary reasons as Tulane. Not sure how true it is, but we try to keep the Louisiana spirit alive in any way we can.

Well I certainly hope he doesnt lose his license for a little thing like painting himself pink, wearing a purple cape, smoking dope, huffing nitrous, packing sex toys, and attempted rape of a housesitter.

Sounds like your regular ole party animal to me. It could happen to anybody. Just the other day I was out sporting my purple cape when...........

 

[SaintsFan11]

Just thought I'd let y'all know my decision.

I'm going to Tulane.

It will be a little more expensive because LSU gave me a scholarship, but we're not talking about a whole lot in the long run because LSU requires you to go an extra semester, and I probably would have gone to the LSU France program.

In the end, the opportunity to be in New Orleans was pretty much the biggest factor, especially after Katrina with all of the opportunities for public service through the law school. It's also a huge judicial center, with every court save the US Supreme Court.

My ability to place highly in my class probably won't differ at either LSU or Tulane, since my problem tends to be laziness rather than being outperformed.

Another factor was the professionalism I saw at Tulane. Their career development office was really impressive, and the opportunity to work (paid) during my first summer was enticing.

Finally, Tulane beat LSU handily this year in the La. bar passage rate (by 8 points I think). I'm not really concerned about the bar, or rather concerned enough to make my decision based on bar passage rates, but apparently there is a big rivalry. Take that, LSU.

In the end, it came down to quality of life for me. LSU is a great school and I was all set to go there, but I just think there are more opportunities (even for someone who wants to practice in Louisiana, specifically Lafayette) at Tulane.

 

[efil4stnias]

Just thought I'd let y'all know my decision.

I'm going to Tulane.

It will be a little more expensive because LSU gave me a scholarship, but we're not talking about a whole lot in the long run because LSU requires you to go an extra semester, and I probably would have gone to the LSU France program.

In the end, the opportunity to be in New Orleans was pretty much the biggest factor, especially after Katrina with all of the opportunities for public service through the law school. It's also a huge judicial center, with every court save the US Supreme Court.

My ability to place highly in my class probably won't differ at either LSU or Tulane, since my problem tends to be laziness rather than being outperformed.

Another factor was the professionalism I saw at Tulane. Their career development office was really impressive, and the opportunity to work (paid) during my first summer was enticing.

Finally, Tulane beat LSU handily this year in the La. bar passage rate (by 8 points I think). I'm not really concerned about the bar, or rather concerned enough to make my decision based on bar passage rates, but apparently there is a big rivalry. Take that, LSU.

In the end, it came down to quality of life for me. LSU is a great school and I was all set to go there, but I just think there are more opportunities (even for someone who wants to practice in Louisiana, specifically Lafayette) at Tulane.

good luck. happy lawyer-ing....