Mike Garafolo: Saints are set to make a decision on Derek Carr within the next few weeks; likely to have multiple suitors if released (12 Viewers)

[Booker]

Their head coach is the vet

The coach isn't going to be able to step in if the young guy is struggling.

 

[IlovemySaints]

The coach isn't going to be able to step in if the young guy is struggling.

True enough but we are in a rebuild we don’t need a vet to step in…. Hitting rock bottom is ok cause once you there only one way to go

 

[St. Widge]

It wouldn’t be vet minimum, but whoever you sign, that’s just additional space you’d have to create and further push into the future. The good thing is within the next 3 weeks tops we will no longer have to debate what will happen. A decision will be made prior to march 13th and we will know what is the 2025 direction we’d headed in.

Again, I would much rather start rattler the entire season, than run it back with Carr trying to somehow get 10 wins and a division title, but I have a strange feeling with this front office that we’re going to push to maximize the Carr contract.

I agree on both except I think the reason they will keep Carr is just because if you get rid of him this year you won't have any money to sign anyone in free agency. I don't expect them to be big players in free agency, but I do expect them to want to add a few key guys that Moore likes and wants to help establish his team.

But, I do think if you are going with Rattler, or another young QB, you commit to them and at most you sign a cheap veteran QB just as a mentor.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

I agree on both except I think the reason they will keep Carr is just because if you get rid of him this year you won't have any money to sign anyone in free agency. I don't expect them to be big players in free agency, but I do expect them to want to add a few key guys that Moore likes and wants to help establish his team.

But, I do think if you are going with Rattler, or another young QB, you commit to them and at most you sign a cheap veteran QB just as a mentor.

We are in agreement 100%

 

[Saint KayBee]

Their head coach is the vet

Kellen Moore has responsibility over the entire roster. He’s not going to be some makeshift 1937 type player-coach. He would have more direct input/influence on the QB since that’s the position he played, but a young QB would need a veteran QB alongside him able to exchange ideas while coach is dealing with the entire team.

 

[sfidc3]

‘Regardless of the cap implications’ is a fun phrase to throw around, but there’s an actual a cost to that. If Carr is released, even as a post June 1 designation, there’s still tough decisions needed to be made. We would have to sign a QB, and we wouldn’t even be able to get a middle of the road one at 10mil per. This year is an odd year where the results really do not matter, whether Carr is on the roster or not, doesn’t matter for the long term outlook.

Actually, it's not that fun, would rather not have to say it.....that said I have no idea what KM plans to do, I've seen decent arguments from both sides of the Carr aisle if you will....we will see what happens...

 

[St. Widge]

Kellen Moore has responsibility over the entire roster. He’s not going to be some makeshift 1937 type player-coach. He would have more direct input/influence on the QB since that’s the position he played, but a young QB would need a veteran QB alongside him able to exchange ideas while coach is dealing with the entire team.

A veteran just to talk to can be found really cheap. But I'm not sure that it's really necessary when you have a former NFL QB/QB Coach HC, likely an OC that is a former NFL QB/QB Coach, and you will have a QB Coach. The truth is that I think most of the development and discussions with a young QB comes from the QB Coach who spends the most time with them and only has 3 or at the most 4 players to work with.

 

[Elvis]

I agree on both except I think the reason they will keep Carr is just because if you get rid of him this year you won't have any money to sign anyone in free agency. I don't expect them to be big players in free agency, but I do expect them to want to add a few key guys that Moore likes and wants to help establish his team.

But, I do think if you are going with Rattler, or another young QB, you commit to them and at most you sign a cheap veteran QB just as a mentor.

CKM could still get his free agents unless they wouldn't be willing to wait until the cap space created by releasing Carr cleared in June. I don't know how often that happens with top tier free agents, but we shouldn't be bringing those in anyway. Key guys that want to play for CKM could come to an agreement with the team and should be fine with it. Neither side would back out because of how it would look for the team and the agent in future negotiations.

Plus, the period of time between the draft and June allow us to know for sure what else we needed to go into the season with a complete roster. And a clipboard holding vet QB can easliy be had in June.

 

[Rouxble]

CKM could still get his free agents unless they wouldn't be willing to wait until the cap space created by releasing Carr cleared in June. I don't know how often that happens with top tier free agents, but we shouldn't be bringing those in anyway. Key guys that want to play for CKM could come to an agreement with the team and should be fine with it. Neither side would back out because of how it would look for the team and the agent in future negotiations.

Plus, the period of time between the draft and June allow us to know for sure what else we needed to go into the season with a complete roster. And a clipboard holding vet QB can easliy be had in June.

All the top-tier guys are gone in March, as well as a lot of the mid-tier guys. A few players will straggle into May when comp picks are no longer an issue, but other than that it’s almost all vet min deals to fill holes not addressed in round one of free agency or the draft.

Last year, the biggest FA contract in May was for Bud Dupree (two years, $6m). We signed the biggest FA contract in May 2023, which went to Foster Moreau (three years, $12m).

 

[Elvis]

All the top-tier guys are gone in March, as well as a lot of the mid-tier guys. A few players will straggle into May when comp picks are no longer an issue, but other than that it’s almost all vet min deals to fill holes not addressed in round one of free agency or the draft.

Last year, the biggest FA contract in May was for Bud Dupree (two years, $6m). We signed the biggest FA contract in May 2023, which went to Foster Moreau (three years, $12m).

Genuine question. Was that when the pen hit the paper or when the contract terms were agreed to? It seems to me that if the money is going to be there and they don't start collecting checks until the season anyway that it shouldn't be a big deal. It should be a normal salary cap maneuvering that players and their agents should be used to. Maybe I'm wrong though.

And we're not getting top tier free agents unless we can overspend and no amount of restructuring should be done to get to that point. I don't want those guys this year and those players agents would work us over because we're in a position of weakness cap wise, kind of like the Carr contract.

 

[Booker]

A veteran just to talk to can be found really cheap. But I'm not sure that it's really necessary when you have a former NFL QB/QB Coach HC, likely an OC that is a former NFL QB/QB Coach, and you will have a QB Coach. The truth is that I think most of the development and discussions with a young QB comes from the QB Coach who spends the most time with them and only has 3 or at the most 4 players to work with.

It’s not just that. The front office owes it to the rest of the team to make sure they have a quarterback on the roster who has some playing experience and has hopefully won at least a few games at one time or another.

And I’m not talking about a “difference maker” or someone who fans would be calling for to get on the field, just someone who can credibly call plays and take snaps without pooping their pants if called upon.

I also think it benefits young quarterbacks to have a veteran to measure themselves against in camp, plus sometimes they struggle and need to get benched before they get ruined, and you need to have someone you can turn to.

 

[Elvis]

It’s not just that. The front office owes it to the rest of the team to make sure they have a quarterback on the roster who has some playing experience and has hopefully won at least a few games at one time or another.

Rookie and young QBs start all the time. Every player has to play their first games at some time. Now if Philly was coming off a Super Bowl and wanted to start a rookie week one, I'd agree. But our squad hasn't accomplished anything worth owing them anything but a paycheck at this point. If they want to start a Rattler or a rookie, they should do it. And if they don't think they need to take up a roster spot for a guy they hope never sees the field, then so be it. That's what rebuilds look like.

That said, there is no doubt we can get a smart backup that's played a few games for the vet minimum.

 

[la. champ1]

The decision is simple Rattler deserves the start next year to see if he can develop with starters at the pro level. If bad we look for new qb in 2026

I agree with this. Salary too high for what he is as a QB. We know his ceiling. See what we have in Rattler so we know if we need to go after a QB next draft or if we have a guy. Also get to see Rattler with actual real support around him and not guys just signed off the street two days prior to game time.

 

[IlovemySaints]

A veteran just to talk to can be found really cheap. But I'm not sure that it's really necessary when you have a former NFL QB/QB Coach HC, likely an OC that is a former NFL QB/QB Coach, and you will have a QB Coach. The truth is that I think most of the development and discussions with a young QB comes from the QB Coach who spends the most time with them and only has 3 or at the most 4 players to work with.

Right and if ima put a vet on the team for purposes outside of playing it will be Jameis or someone with a winning pedigree Aaron Rodgers’s if he can humble thyself and become a teacher

 

[lilvipa221]

I agree with that, but it's not a uniquely Saints issue, it's a league marketplace issue. Teams have to overpay for average QB's who aren't on rookie contracts.

Take a look at how many QB's still on rookie contracts who were starters in the Super Bowl compared to those QB's in the Super Bowl who weren't on rookie contracts. That's a big part of why FA QB's are overpaid.

For a little perspective on the idea that their are QB's that can will their team to victory:

• Tom Brady played 23 seasons. He had 10 Super Bowl appearences won 7 and lost 3.
• Drew Brees played 20 seasons. He had 1 Super Bowl appearence and won it.
• Patrick Mahomes has played 7 seasons as a starter. He has been to the Super Bowl 5 times and he won 3 and lost 2.

If those guys can't consistently will their teams to victory all by themselves, then no QB can. It's a myth that a QB can will their team to victory. The better a QB is the better the chance the team has of winning, but the QB alone can not win a game. If they could, why bother having the other 52 guys on the roster?

Now, the converse is also true. The worst your QB is the less chance you have at winning games, even if the rest of the team is average. That's why all QB's are so highly valued. An average QB on a solid team gives you a better chance of winning than an all time great QB on a below average team. Just look at Brees's career if you want an example.

I'm not saying it's good that QB's are so highly paid. I'm just explaining why.

I understand what you are saying if my statement was saying that a QB who can will their team to victory needs to win the super bowl every year but that's not the case. What you look for is a quarterback who can consistently lead your team to the playoffs with a few victories sprinkled in every once in a while, similar to what Baker is doing with Tampa.

What I was saying was that a QB that can will his team to victory gets the most out of their teams and not the bare minimum. There is a HUGE gap between what these guys have done in their playoff careers vs Carr at 0-1 in his 12 seasons as a starting quarterback.

Carr is the type of QB that will give you the same average production with minimal turnovers to protect his stats no matter the game. around 200 yards and a touchdown or maybe 2 and thats it. You will not get any explosive games or games where he puts his team on his back at all. He has to be carried to victories.