Musings on being "robbed" of our second rounder and why we do not need to trade back (necessarily) (1 Viewer)

[BoNcHiE]

Has Loomis EVER traded down?

Only a couple of times in the later rounds.

I'd bet alot more on us trading up vs. trading down.

 

[60minutes]

Only a couple of times in the later rounds.

I'd bet alot more on us trading up vs. trading down.

I think you are right, BoNcHiE. I know we are very good at trading up a round and sacrificing future picks, which some fans loathe us doing. I do not care if we are landing a player who is going to contribute and help us win. When it is that center or kicker who does not work out, then it looks bad.

 

[AARPSaint]

I think you are right, BoNcHiE. I know we are very good at trading up a round and sacrificing future picks, which some fans loathe us doing. I do not care if we are landing a player who is going to contribute and help us win. When it is that center or kicker who does not work out, then it looks bad.

It just makes me nervous trading up. Maybe it's stupid, but I remember the combination first round picks that were wasted on J******* S******* . Moving up to get Mark Ingram? Made sense at a time when the running back corps was decimated, I suppose--and we've had many arguments on the merit of that pick

Here's hoping that the scout who found Hicks in Canada has found some more gems on the defensive side. And even more, that the Saints will draft the best player available unless it's ridiculous like a quarterback in the first round.

60, I think you are right about the cap situation. There's no need to panic while Loomis and his crew are in charge. We go through this every year, and every year he finds a way to make it work. For free agency, let's see what we can get on the defensive side. and maybe OT. I haven't researched the possibilities, but maybe someone is there--or will be there--who can help.

Until free agency is done, it's a bit difficult to formulate a solid draft. It strikes me that this year's draft class has a lot of players at positions of need for the Saints. We're debating Jordan, Mingo, Montgomery, Ansah, et al. That's a lot of talent. Frankly, it's likely that one of them will be there at @15.

 

[guillermo]

A couple of things on my side:

- When talking about trading, even when we have traded several times, it has mostly to trade up, and you do that when you have just a few spots to fill, thinking you are a couple of players away. That happened with the Ingram trade, and at this point, I don't think it will.

- For teams, it is easier to trade up then to trade down. In order to do so, you should need to have an eager partner (in order to win the trade) and also a a backup plan for the player you would be picking at your position. This year the rams and bengals are the teams that may be interested in playing trade, it will all depends on who is available at 15, but if they do, the saints will need to drop from the first round in order to get a late second or realistically, another third.

Now on free agency. Sadly, we already did our purchases for the year. It was done last year by playing magic and getting Bunkley, Hawthorne and Lofton to contracts that are heavy on later years. We will not do that again. Those and Brees and Graham contracts are our investments for the future. Simply, we need to clean our credit card and start living with what we can afford.

As I wrote several times, and Drew confirmed yesterday, this is the beginning of a new era. The switch of defensive scheme allow us not only to get rid of veterans for salary, but also for scheme reasons. We may be surprised on the players leaving.

It is a remodelling year, but a good remodelling project start with refurbishing your basic building blocks. I do see most of the parts of our spinal column of our defense already in place (with the exception of safeties).

I think that we will not go with big names in free agency, and instead detect young players that can come and surprise and if not, build depth.

Frankly, between signing veterans or let youngsters play, I think we will go for the second choice, that is the only way to clean our financial situation. And frankly, playing expensive veterans gave us 9 wins and the worst defense in years, we have nothing to lose by going young.

 

[Dart]

A couple of things on my side:

- When talking about trading, even when we have traded several times, it has mostly to trade up, and you do that when you have just a few spots to fill, thinking you are a couple of players away. That happened with the Ingram trade, and at this point, I don't think it will.

- For teams, it is easier to trade up then to trade down. In order to do so, you should need to have an eager partner (in order to win the trade) and also a a backup plan for the player you would be picking at your position. This year the rams and bengals are the teams that may be interested in playing trade, it will all depends on who is available at 15, but if they do, the saints will need to drop from the first round in order to get a late second or realistically, another third.

Now on free agency. Sadly, we already did our purchases for the year. It was done last year by playing magic and getting Bunkley, Hawthorne and Lofton to contracts that are heavy on later years. We will not do that again. Those and Brees and Graham contracts are our investments for the future. Simply, we need to clean our credit card and start living with what we can afford.

As I wrote several times, and Drew confirmed yesterday, this is the beginning of a new era. The switch of defensive scheme allow us not only to get rid of veterans for salary, but also for scheme reasons. We may be surprised on the players leaving.

It is a remodelling year, but a good remodelling project start with refurbishing your basic building blocks. I do see most of the parts of our spinal column of our defense already in place (with the exception of safeties).

I think that we will not go with big names in free agency, and instead detect young players that can come and surprise and if not, build depth.

Frankly, between signing veterans or let youngsters play, I think we will go for the second choice, that is the only way to clean our financial situation. And frankly, playing expensive veterans gave us 9 wins and the worst defense in years, we have nothing to lose by going young.

I agree with the above wholeheartedly.

In regards to 60 minutes, I don't disagree that Loomis will continue to be aggressive but you don't seem to be accounting for the fact that there are 31 other teams playing the game during FA. Those will not be the contracts Long etc. go for because any GM worth his salt would outbid them! That's why it's very rarely a good idea to consistently try and build a team through Free Agency.

One other point regarding restructuring of veteran contracts. Fans often refer to restructuring as a sort of panacea. You can't simply assume veterans who've earned their big contracts will agree to backload their deals into the shape of bonuses they may well never receive. Particularly if those players are still playing at the same high level which earned their current contract. It's very easy for fans to make these kind of 'difficult' decisions on behalf of their heroes but it it's not our money and I think we need to bear in mind that these guys might not want to restructure and that doesn't make them bad guys. It simply means they're trying to protect their family and earn as much as they can while they're playing. If Drew wants to restructure, great. But I don't think we have any right to expect it.

 

[guillermo]

60, I think you are right about the cap situation. There's no need to panic while Loomis and his crew are in charge. We go through this every year, and every year he finds a way to make it work. For free agency, let's see what we can get on the defensive side. and maybe OT. I haven't researched the possibilities, but maybe someone is there--or will be there--who can help.

Constantly renegotiating contracts has its own consequences:

- You make your team older, since you are getting "married" with veterans, sometimes longer then you should (aks Stinchcomb, Will Smith).

- You loose flexibility, you are limiting your resources for the future, it's using your credit card in a way that the interest rate is the cost of opportunity.

- You end overpaying (based on performance) in the last year of the contracts.

Since again, we will be in the first year of a remodeling period, I am all to eat as much cap possible by eating as much as possible our our current cap problems.

I will think twice on signing any free agent for a rich contract, and will be tempted on not giving a contract of over 3 years to any possible acquisition.

You have to realize the state of your team, we have 5 players that are 28 years old, 9 are 29 years old and 8 players over 30. More importantly, look at the names: Grubbs, Johnson, Colston, Thomas, Evans, Moore, Sproles, Strief, Greer, Harper, Henderson, Vilma, Smith, Shanle, Brees.

If we are not smart, age is going to come in a flash, and we will not be able, financially and depth wise, to keep a competitive team.

Rebuilding should start right now.