NOF: Saints in position to get under the cap with ease and create another $30+ million in cap space to add new players (2 Viewers)

[Rouxble]

You still haven't shown where the Saints don't have options because of the cap. You have MAYBE one player they could not retain (and they could have) and haven't named a single free agent they missed on because they didn't have the cap to pay them.

Except I did. I posted a table showing how it would be impossible for the Saints to get under the cap by cutting players when practically every other team can, isn’t that a lack of options relative to other teams?

It would be impossible to know who the Saints wanted that we didn’t get to sign, but there’s plenty of free agents that we would prefer over who we ended up with. For example, you’ll never convince anybody that Nathan Shepherd was the DT the Saints coveted in free agency, but the local spin machine will pump that sunshine and say we got a diamond in the rough.

 

[B4YOU]

Guaranteeing Carr is a Saint through 2026 is posion

Signing Carr for more than $25M/yr was the poison. He will get his 37.5M/yr and we will be paying for it in 2027. His 10M roster bonus for 2025 guarantees in March 2024.

 

[St. Geezy]

Sorry, but that season counts as well. It counted for the rest of the league. Wow, let’s not have an emergency fund for emergencies.

Ok. Now that you have gotten that out of your system, complete the exercise as asked.

 

[St. Widge]

Guaranteeing Carr is a Saint through 2026 is posion

I agree, but the front office doesn't.

 

[St. Widge]

Except I did. I posted a table showing how it would be impossible for the Saints to get under the cap by cutting players when practically every other team can, isn’t that a lack of options relative to other teams?

It would be impossible to know who the Saints wanted that we didn’t get to sign, but there’s plenty of free agents that we would prefer over who we ended up with. For example, you’ll never convince anybody that Nathan Shepherd was the DT the Saints coveted in free agency, but the local spin machine will pump that sunshine and say we got a diamond in the rough.

Why would they want to get under the cap by cutting players they want to keep? Yes, it limits that option but it's not an option any team would want to take if they don't have to take it. And, that is exactly the downside of how some teams run the cap. They have no choice but to cut players they want to keep in order to get under the cap. They don't have the option to keep them. As I said, different methods have different options that are limited.

I'll give you a pass on the free agents that we couldn't sign due to money since yes, it is impossible to say if there were any, although I don't recall the team brining in any free agent that they lost due to a bidding war that they lost. Some players chose not to come here, but not because the money was vastly off. Well, other than refusing to fully guarantee Deshaun Watson's contract which would have been insane.

But, honestly, other than maybe Hedrickson, who have they lost that they wanted to keep because they didn't have the money to pay them? Maybe there are a few that I am missing or forgot, but it's not this huge number of players and it's no worse than the number of guys that other teams had to cut to get under the cap. Every method of managing the cap has it's issues and limits certain options.

 

[Elvis]

I agree that they could end up in that situation, but I disagree that is the situation with Cam Jordan. He's still good as a run stopper and he and Demario may be the only things holding that locker room together so letting him go would be a disaster. And, as far as his pass rush, he played half the year with a ankle injury that stopped him from being able to rush the passer. He's not the player he was, but he's still very good when you combine his leadership and run stopping skills. Plus, I don't think you are going to find a fee agent DE better than Cam even if you had the money they are paying him to use.

There are only two Edge rushers older than Cam Jordan in the NFL, though there are a handful the same age. Only a couple in his age range have a cap number as high as his, Khalil Mack and Von Miller. Mack had 17 sacks this season and Von Miller contract is admittedly one of the worst I've ever seen. Most others are on low cost contracts and cap numbers.

There are ZERO Linebackers in the NFL older than Demario Davis and he is carrying the 5th highest cap number of all linebackers. Davis has played well to this point, but it will not last. His contract is not bad though. We could actually save around $4.5 million by cutting him, but you won't replace his production with that $4.5 million. Better to just let his contract void next season with the $7.3 million dead cap.

Both have been great Saints, but you can't keep extending and restructuring players at these ages. Sure they're solid leaders, but that didn't amount to anything useful on the field this season and it's not something you pay that much for. They are only two examples. When you start looking at other players we'd have to do the same things for, it really begins to add up. Carr already has the 8th highest cap number for 2024 and that will surely get pushed back. But that will only further grow his cap number that was already going to rise by $10 million each of the next two years anyway.

My point to this is not to bash on our players. They didn't make this and they have earned their money. The point is the structures and how it limits our options when it comes to improving the team. It's also not to suggest that we should get rid of them now. My point is to stop making things worse. To give the team some hope of being able to field a team that has a good balance of cheap drafted players, solid mid priced veteran players and some low cost veterans at the end of their careers. Right now there is no margin to allow us to keep or go get the solid mid priced veteran players and we're over loaded with expensive veterans at the ends of their careers. That we haven't drafted particularly well certainly isn't helping either.

 

[DaveXA]

The CBA has a cap floor that requires all teams to spend 89% of the cap over a 4 years period. Can a cheap team save a little more money spending less? Sure. In reality the 11% they'd gain in salaries over that 4 years period is less than they'd gain if they spent 95-100% and their teams were good. If the Saints were good, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Our problem is that our roster is the most expensive in the league AND not even good enough to get to the playoffs in the weakest division in the league and with the one of the easiest schedules on record.

I'd argue that with better coaching, the current roster was good enough to make the playoffs and be competitive.

 

[St. Widge]

There are only two Edge rushers older than Cam Jordan in the NFL, though there are a handful the same age. Only a couple in his age range have a cap number as high as his, Khalil Mack and Von Miller. Mack had 17 sacks this season and Von Miller contract is admittedly one of the worst I've ever seen. Most others are on low cost contracts and cap numbers.

There are ZERO Linebackers in the NFL older than Demario Davis and he is carrying the 5th highest cap number of all linebackers. Davis has played well to this point, but it will not last. His contract is not bad though. We could actually save around $4.5 million by cutting him, but you won't replace his production with that $4.5 million. Better to just let his contract void next season with the $7.3 million dead cap.

Both have been great Saints, but you can't keep extending and restructuring players at these ages. Sure they're solid leaders, but that didn't amount to anything useful on the field this season and it's not something you pay that much for. They are only two examples. When you start looking at other players we'd have to do the same things for, it really begins to add up. Carr already has the 8th highest cap number for 2024 and that will surely get pushed back. But that will only further grow his cap number that was already going to rise by $10 million each of the next two years anyway.

My point to this is not to bash on our players. They didn't make this and they have earned their money. The point is the structures and how it limits our options when it comes to improving the team. It's also not to suggest that we should get rid of them now. My point is to stop making things worse. To give the team some hope of being able to field a team that has a good balance of cheap drafted players, solid mid priced veteran players and some low cost veterans at the end of their careers. Right now there is no margin to allow us to keep or go get the solid mid priced veteran players and we're over loaded with expensive veterans at the ends of their careers. That we haven't drafted particularly well certainly isn't helping either.

I don't care how old Demario is, I care how he plays and if his play declines we can deal with that when it happens but I really don't think it's going to be an issue while he is under contract. He is in amazing shape despite his age.

I mean, there may come a time when there is a contract they want to get out of but can't and maybe Carr's contract is that contract. But Demario is still playing at an All-Pro level and Cam is still worth close to what they are paying him if not what they are paying him. Yes, Cam doesn't have the sack numbers of Miller or Mack, then again, neither of them can play the run, they are really just edge rushers and not DEs, and Cam was playing hurt for at least half of the year. Would I rather have a guy with those sack numbers? Probably, but neither fits our scheme as well as Cam and I'm not sure either is close to the team leader that Cam is.

Moreover, there is no reason to walk away from Cam or Demario when we don't have anyone that is really close to their level and I don't think there will be one available in free agency.

 

[Elvis]

I'd argue that with better coaching, the current roster was good enough to make the playoffs and be competitive.

But we're not getting better coaching either and the same person is responsible for that reality as well.

 

[DaveXA]

Here we go again with the Trey Hendrickson example, which occurred during the most unique financial off-season ever, where we had our highest paid player retire, had an abnormally great draft class all come up for contracts, and had a -$30+ million swing on the salary cap due to an unprecedented global pandemic at the same time.

Why is this always the go-to when clearly these were some extraordinary circumstances?

Yeah, using an outlier as some sort of big example why the strategy supposedly doesn't work is absurd.

 

[Elvis]

I don't care how old Demario is, I care how he plays and if his play declines we can deal with that when it happens but I really don't think it's going to be an issue while he is under contract. He is in amazing shape despite his age.

I mean, there may come a time when there is a contract they want to get out of but can't and maybe Carr's contract is that contract. But Demario is still playing at an All-Pro level and Cam is still worth close to what they are paying him if not what they are paying him. Yes, Cam doesn't have the sack numbers of Miller or Mack, then again, neither of them can play the run, they are really just edge rushers and not DEs, and Cam was playing hurt for at least half of the year. Would I rather have a guy with those sack numbers? Probably, but neither fits our scheme as well as Cam and I'm not sure either is close to the team leader that Cam is.

Moreover, there is no reason to walk away from Cam or Demario when we don't have anyone that is really close to their level and I don't think there will be one available in free agency.

Demario isn't the worst of our problems and you would happily let him ride off into the sunset with his current contract. Will we be able to? Or are we going to have to extend him beyond this season to get the overall cap number down?

No other team is carrying a 3rd down DE with a cap hit of nearly 10% of the total cap if they are managing things well. It's downright silly to imply that Cam Jordan is worth that and it's the perfect example of what we should not be doing.

 

[DaveXA]

But we're not getting better coaching either and the same person is responsible for that reality as well.

Yeah, we're apparently stuck with DA for another season. It is what it is.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Interested to see how Ram’s will be restructured

Hoping he retires, for his own health. Also hoping the team isn’t left on the hook for a huge amount.

 

[SweetT]

Hoping he retires, for his own health. Also hoping the team isn’t left on the hook for a huge amount.

I believe he will retire. Players nowadays are more accepting to leaving the game early than to hold on, but we’ll see

 

[No2DC]

Is this a surprise? We do the same thing every year. I just waiting for the Carr restructure. This bullshirt is so draining.