Obama Defies Pessimists as Rising Economy Converges With Stocks (2 Viewers)

[dtc]

Care to discuss the NASDAQ during Clinton's term? Ride the wave, everybody is happy unitl the wave reaches shore and it breaks.

Are you saying that Clinton's policies destroyed our economy because NASDAQ was overbought? Would you like to discuss the numismatic tampering from MS back in the early 90s and blame them on GHWBush?

 

[BHM]

Tell me about the dotcom collapse, please. When was it and how bad did the market do?

See chart in my last post. The Nasdaq was hammered

The dot-com bubble crash wiped out $5 trillion in market value of technology companies from March 2000 to October 2002.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble#cite_note-13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

Interesting read by the way. Many people think the dotcom collapse led to the housing bubble during much of Bush's first term as people were looking for safer investments other than the market. The housing bubble led to over priced housing market which eventually topped out in 2005 and started falling which led to the subprime mortgage crisis.

 

[BHM]

Are you saying that Clinton's policies destroyed our economy because NASDAQ was overbought? Would you like to discuss the numismatic tampering from MS back in the early 90s and blame them on GHWBush?

Are you saying that Bush's policies led to the financial crisis? Of course you are.

 

[porculator]

You can argue how much Obama's policies have affected the overall economy but they've certainly helped the market. I thought Cash for Clunkers was stupid, but Ford just hit a 5 year high. And say what you will about the correlation and stocks and the economy, but people are way more willing to consume big and/or hire when they're comfortable with their savings. All the "big wigs" hoarding the money are the ones spending it. If the market was still sitting at 6k you can guarantee the job situation would be a lot worse.

 

[dtc]

See chart in my last post. The Nasdaq was hammered



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

Interesting read by the way. Many people think the dotcom collapse led to the housing bubble during much of Bush's first term as people were looking for safer investments other than the market. The housing bubble led to over priced housing market which eventually topped out in 2005 and started falling which led to the subprime mortgage crisis.

And, to a pretty fair extent, I would agree. There's too large a pile of cheap/free money chasing profits in the short term.

This is one of the primary reasons I've been opposed to the privatization of Social Security and why I am so outraged by the oil markets.

 

[dtc]

Are you saying that Bush's policies led to the financial crisis? Of course you are.

Yes, to some extent. Moreover, I blame Americans who refuse to be realistic and understand they can't have everything they want whenever they want it without having to pay for it.

I think that belief is why you and I agree so often on specifics, but in the comparison of Clinton's culpability for the dotcom bubble and Bush's responsibility for near economic Armageddon there are huge differences.

Bush's stated belief in "deficits don't matter" and supply side economics coupled with tax cuts for the richest while borrowing from the future of the poor is quite different than simply presiding over the Oval Office while speculators run up a market on the hope and prayer of getting rich quick.

One is a symptom and the other a cause.

 

[Galbreath34]

Making those claims are purely political. The market collapse started well before Bush was in office. The market is run on fear and greed. There was too much fear bringing the market down to 6500. At that point, any smart person thought it was undervalued and bought. Whether democrat or republican, no president is responsible for a market gaining 60% in a matter of a few months... especially when no policy or regulation passed.

You honestly expect to have a SHRED of credibility to call the catastrophe at the end of the Bush administration 8 years later directly related to 2000? So let's get this straight, when you look at this 12 year graph, it makes sense to blame the collapse Bush oversaw on Clinton, because it started then. Yeah, I agree, things run in cycles, like your partisan revisionism. Blame cycle when Democrats are in, praise cycle when they aren't. Geez.

 

[Bulletproof Tiger]

You honestly expect to have a SHRED of credibility to call the catastrophe at the end of the Bush administration 8 years later directly related to 2000? So let's get this straight, when you look at this 12 year graph, it makes sense to blame the collapse Bush oversaw on Clinton, because it started then. Yeah, I agree, things run in cycles, like your partisan revisionism. Blame cycle when Democrats are in, praise cycle when they aren't. Geez.

When did I ever praise Bush? Bush spent way too much too. You can honestly claim that Obama is the reason the market climbed 60% just like you can honestly say that he deserved a Nobel Peace prize a month into office.

 

[Galbreath34]

You claimed that 8 years later the collapse under Obama was a continuance of a collapse started under Clinton. If you continue to stand behind that, nothing I can possibly say could humiliate you further.

 

[dagimlet]

Personally, I blame Reagan. If the bull market wouldn't have started under his administration we never would have gotten into this mess.

Up and down cycles are a fact of life. As long as the long-term trend is up, we're doing pretty well.

 

[tak]

When did I ever praise Bush? Bush spent way too much too. You can honestly claim that Obama is the reason the market climbed 60% just like you can honestly say that he deserved a Nobel Peace prize a month into office.

Exactly. Desparate times call for desparate praises. People are looking for any and every reason to praise Pres. Obama in the midst of the most scandal laden, promise breaking administration in recent history. Unemployment is still higher than he promised it would ever be. Until that number changes... I think and hope he will change his attitude and policies so that things genuinely get better.

 

[BHM]

Yes, to some extent. Moreover, I blame Americans who refuse to be realistic and understand they can't have everything they want whenever they want it without having to pay for it.

I think that belief is why you and I agree so often on specifics, but in the comparison of Clinton's culpability for the dotcom bubble and Bush's responsibility for near economic Armageddon there are huge differences.

Bush's stated belief in "deficits don't matter" and supply side economics coupled with tax cuts for the richest while borrowing from the future of the poor is quite different than simply presiding over the Oval Office while speculators run up a market on the hope and prayer of getting rich quick.

One is a symptom and the other a cause.

The deficits did not cause our economy to collapse. The housing collapse caused our economy to collapse. There is very little different between the outcome during Clinton's term and Bush's term.

Both Presidents sat back and ignored what was happening. Tax revenue is increasing and they were both happy. Clinton was fortunate that the dotcom craze he blindly watched did not collapse until the very end of his term. Bush was caught with a little more time left on his watch.

Are both Presidents to blame for the mess? We have to say yes because they are the top dog and the buck stops on their desk.


You comment on the market dropping 60 percent during Bush's term and rising greatly during Clinton's term. But is we shift the time line by a mere 12 months, the exact opposite would be true.

Timing baby, timing.

 

[BIG E]

Yes, to some extent. Moreover, I blame Americans who refuse to be realistic and understand they can't have everything they want whenever they want it without having to pay for it.

Bush's stated belief in "deficits don't matter" .

lus-un2:

 

[varanook]

Yeah, the dotcom was a hell of a ride. Soaring stock prices and money being made out of the azz. Right up until it collapsed.

What do you think the housing bubble was?

 

[varanook]

Making those claims are purely political. The market collapse started well before Bush was in office. The market is run on fear and greed. There was too much fear bringing the market down to 6500. At that point, any smart person thought it was undervalued and bought. Whether democrat or republican, no president is responsible for a market gaining 60% in a matter of a few months... especially when no policy or regulation passed.

While I have been part of the fall and the ride up (at least some of my money) I think the ride up is nearing its end. I am nervous that the only thing holding the economy and the market together is govenment spending and I wonder when that money will stop.

I am also nervous about 80 dollar a barrel oil going to 100 very soon and then we are put in another bad situation.